Warfare & Tactics

This thread is not about everyones general feelings of whether they like pre inferno, inferno, or post inferno faction war.

Its about Han's specific statements regarding economic balance, whether inferno punished the winners so much that the rules really had to be changed, and whether we should care at all if it is economically foolish to play for the losing side.

Hans is the one who is talking with ccp about this game and it seems ccp is listening to him. (although he may deny it - I really don't know what his point is above.) We are likely to get stuck with whatever he is telling them for a long long time.

I won't be pedantic and repeat the questions I asked in the op, but if your gonna post here at least try to make it address the statements and or follow up questions I raised in the op.

Don't you have some systems to get ready for the minmitar to farm? If you keep wasting time here they will need to use their own alts.

I don't presume anyone has to answer anything I post, let alone "immediately." I am just asking that the thread not get derailed with worthless posts like yours.

That particular person is the one who has ccps ear. So while it might be nice for us all to express our views here its really only his view that matters.

I think this issue is important for faction war.

I have talked with hans privately. But I am sorry to say I have come to doubt that what he says in private will match what he says to ccp or in public.

So I am no longer interested in what he has to say "privately." From now on I only look at what he says in public.

Of course I can't make him answer these questions. People can make whatever they want out of it. They can, like you, say well I didn't ask the questions the right way. Or whatever, people can and should draw their own conclusions.

I just want to hightlight what he is pushing to ccp as the "players representative."

As far as shooting you, I don't shoot blues.

I read and post on the forums about eve and faction war allot. There are a few of us who do - Ill spare them from being called out. I'm not sure I get why I do it either. I just like the concept of eve, gaming generally, and I like talking about eve about as much as I like playing it.

Perhaps it's odd, but who knows why people like what they do?

Some people want to be CSM so they lick every ones ass if targets seems to be possible + vote.

If target disagree CSM may smack some to get more votes from stupid people.

So if CSM member changes his mind on every post it is not wonder, CSM usually does not think anything, CSM just repeats ideas his voters said.

"This thread is not about everyones general feelings of whether they like pre inferno, inferno, or post inferno faction war."

It is about Cearain's personal anti-bromance with Hans, and it started with a bunch of tiring drivel related to pre-Inferno.

Well, here's the thing. It's now post-Inferno and post-post-Inferno-pre-Retribution. ie; we got the fast-tracked Retribution changes because CCP did what CCP did, and it sucked donkey cojones.

Cearain, you need to devote your time and efforts not so much to hating on Hans and his record as CSM. He will be judged successful or not via quasi-democratic elections for the next CSM, which you should run for if you beleive your cause righteous, your logic impeccable and ability to trash-quote unrivalled. With this unholy trinity of awesome, and your engaging personality, I am sure you would make a most exemplary CSM delegate representing the fractious views of FW people and their trolling forum alts.

However, that aside, you should build a bridge and get over it. Here's why.

Number one, being paid for def plexing has happened. You talk of an endless amount of ISK sloughing into Minmatar, but Minmatar has had sov over Metro, but almost all of Metro has been perma-vulnerable and so deeply red for so long it was basically a cranberry farm for Amarr. Sure, the yield per LP has been better in the past for Minmatar due to warzone dominance and a mass of alts owned by everyone from outside FW (WH friends and nullbear friends of mine ran 1-3 alts each to farm ISK) who clubbed together with the old mechanic and pushed tier 5's to get ridiculous cashouts.

But that is gone. In its place, minnie alt cloud gets to eke out an unprofitable existence defplexing all the sov in Metro which it wons for dominance. Maybe it will all get defplexed to safety, but that will be because of the actual FW people not the masses of alts in Minmatar, due to the diminishing ISK/hr of defplexing a safe system. Eg, SEFEM has a set of systems we defplexed before the patch for absolutely no reward, to play the so game - like you.

Your frustration with sov mechanics would be rooted more in the fact that Amarr was happy to keep Metro deep vulnerable as a farm, versus manning up and flipping the systems. If you are so high and mighty about all this, you cannot resile from the history of Metro being so much of an amarr/caldari farm for so long versus actually flipping sov .

Which brings me to the next point; diagonal plexing. In almost all senses Minnie alts went to Caldari space to offensively plex at the Caldari, who dominated their space at the expense of the Gallente. If they had gone to plex in the 2-6 Amarr systems they would have been so badly frustrated if not ganked they would not have made the ISK they did. Similarly, as I used to waste a hell of a lot of time in between Fweddit blobs chasing people out of the Metro cornfields, most were Caldari militia plexing alts. This reality refutes most of your loaded questioning - yes Minnie was full of scads of alts but they had to go to plex Caldari space in order to mak their LPs.

So, the situation used to be alts of the dominant faction diagonal plexed because it was the only ISK around, and the warzone control was maintained so tier 5 could be pushed, and unreasonable rewards earned. That is now over, it i time to move on and get over your grudge.

You have been very selective in what you see as a problem, because your attack is personal versus Hans and not rooted in the facts (despite being about stuff 2 patches ago, and hence an irrelevance anyway). Now the facts have changed you see defplexing as a handout to the Minmatar.

Defplexing is, at best, 75% nett of offensive plexing. Given most ISK making was driven by alts, when they defplex the systems too much, the ISK/hr does not reward them as much as it does those offensive plexing the same system. I cannot see how defplexing rewards are a handout to the Minmatar in terms of maintaining warzone control, if the whole point of warzone control is, as you infer, all about the ISK printing. The rewards are slanted in favor of the aggressor, and when you have massive dominance, you will need to invest more and more time to defplexing for little (and indeed no) reward...or you could go diagonally attack the other faction's space.

Further, the changes to plexes mean less and less gunless plex alts, more effort required to flip a plex, and more risk. Which, arguably, favours the defender in the strategic battle, and the aggressor in the ISK battle. It also is a massive shot to the nuts of Minmatar's horde of alts - which is why Militia chat is so quiet - and since you run a Minnie alt, probably why you are crying so much as you can no longer farm Cldari plexes AFK and certainly can't solo them in anything easily (lol ECM).

So, what gives? Admit this is just you publically attacking Hans, and get down off the pole in your backside and in the dirt where you belong.

does anyone ever really stay on topic anymore?

cerain o/

mate, the FW environment as a whole is under development and im sure we all look forward to when we have a FW we can all happily PVP in...

there is just a few things i need to lay out as a bit of a disclaimer in regards to why it feels unfair just now.
id also like to say that were any of us in your position we'd be looking to offlload the albatross too... however

The minnies worked VERY hard pre inferno to be in the best possible position to weather the upcomming shifts and changes.
We knew it would most likely take the next 2 years to get through the changes to a stable end result.
we knew that warzone control was going to be THE metric we needed more of in order to survive these changes comfortably. With that in mind we set a single goal

we knew we needed more space (goal set)
and then we went out and secured all available space (op success)

quite simply that was the battle the amarr should have fought harder in, you tried... although i cant say i respect what amarr resorted to. if amarr had held on to more space you wouldnt be up the proverbial creek without a paddle and your posts wouldnt sound so "butt-hurtee".

as much as our position now is largely the result of the past ,so is the OP.... there will be changes to bring more balance because the faction warfare mechanics are NOT set in stone, they are going to change... hans has had influence im sure.... but you can be damn sure he aint calling the shots for what actually hits the server.

if you want to not feel like you're at such a disadvantage i suggest you get plexing... go forbbid it might actually bring fights... wich is what i thought FW was actually about.. not about which side has access to more isk

ur still talking about isk, lp and plexing... not much talking going on about pvp, its gonna be hard not to sweep this thread under the rug when its basically a cry of the poor.

understand that we want you guys to get mad enough to fight us... not mad enough to uselessly point fingers about stuff that isnt pvp

this is why the amarr cant win... they see plexing and pvp as two different things.

one begets the other