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Bye bye safe orca hauling
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#21 - 2012-11-02 17:40:15 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Not even close.
Actually, very close. It means that there is security — just not the kind given through corporation roles (which incidentally means that it'll be more versatile for mixed-fleet use).

Daniel Plain wrote:
byebye 75k cargohold, hello 200k EHP.
Expanding on the Orca's cargo hold is a bad idea at the moment anyway, so that's pretty much always been the case… well, except that it's closer to 300k EHP if you fit it properly.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#22 - 2012-11-02 17:41:46 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
JF's ruined 0.0 - logistics in this game are a joke now. This is insanely minor in comparison to the buffs that moving large volumes of assets have had in recent years.


This this and this. JF were almost as massive a mistake as super carriers and titans.
Katabrok First
Apukaray Security
#23 - 2012-11-02 18:11:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Not even close.
Actually, very close. It means that there is security — just not the kind given through corporation roles (which incidentally means that it'll be more versatile for mixed-fleet use).

Daniel Plain wrote:
byebye 75k cargohold, hello 200k EHP.
Expanding on the Orca's cargo hold is a bad idea at the moment anyway, so that's pretty much always been the case… well, except that it's closer to 300k EHP if you fit it properly.

How do yout set it for max EHP? My usual setup is:

[Orca, Actual Setup]
Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Gist C-Type 100MN Afterburner

Small Tractor Beam II
Improved 'Guise' Cloaking Device II
Salvager II

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints I

I usually fly it to sell stuff in Jita, never on autopilot. I know that the astronautic rigs lowers my armor, I'm just curious about how you do it...
Dave stark
#24 - 2012-11-02 18:15:07 UTC
Katabrok First wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Not even close.
Actually, very close. It means that there is security — just not the kind given through corporation roles (which incidentally means that it'll be more versatile for mixed-fleet use).

Daniel Plain wrote:
byebye 75k cargohold, hello 200k EHP.
Expanding on the Orca's cargo hold is a bad idea at the moment anyway, so that's pretty much always been the case… well, except that it's closer to 300k EHP if you fit it properly.

How do yout set it for max EHP? My usual setup is:

[Orca, Actual Setup]
Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Gist C-Type 100MN Afterburner

Small Tractor Beam II
Improved 'Guise' Cloaking Device II
Salvager II

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints I

I usually fly it to sell stuff in Jita, never on autopilot. I know that the astronautic rigs lowers my armor, I'm just curious about how you do it...


replace that istab with bulkheads. you can get an orca to almost 200k ehp without any of the relevant hp skills at 5 with just the bulkheads and dcu.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2012-11-02 18:37:30 UTC
Katabrok First wrote:
How do yout set it for max EHP?
[Orca, Pfft]

Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

100MN Microwarpdrive I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II

Prototype Cloaking Device I
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I

The problem with your fit is that you're wasting an awful lot of slots on stuff that makes no difference — istabs, and nozzle joints in particular — and on an item that makes it more worth-while to gank. If you just fit a standard T1 MWD, you can get into warp in 10 seconds, and no amount of agility bonuses will let you do that. Taking off from a station would take a bit more since you undock at speed, but you should insta-warp to a… well… an insta at that point, so it won't matter. Once you get out of warp, you can use the MWD to align to wherever you're going. Exactly how you get that MWD on there is up to you. I prefer Ancillary Routers because it's handy for a few other fits as well and it lets you completely maximise that precious hull HP.
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#26 - 2012-11-02 18:46:04 UTC
Gonna put a JF alt on character bazaar this evening. Big smile

Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW
Ginger Barbarella
#27 - 2012-11-02 18:49:01 UTC
Allow jump freighter use of cyno in high... problem solved.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#28 - 2012-11-02 18:49:56 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Allow jump freighter use of cyno in high... problem solved.
What problem?
Dave stark
#29 - 2012-11-02 18:50:36 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Allow jump freighter use of cyno in high... problem solved.
What problem?


the problem that moving items isn't totally risk free... i know, i know.
Ginger Barbarella
#30 - 2012-11-02 18:53:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Allow jump freighter use of cyno in high... problem solved.
What problem?


Threads START at the top of the page, on page One.

No need to thank me. Cool

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Chuc Morris
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-11-02 19:52:24 UTC
Maggeridon Thoraz wrote:
what a nightmare. now logistics in this game becomes even more worse...




Was about time to nerf Jita, awesome news...

Bad ideas are bad and this one gets the Nobel price for being the worst of them. Should have worked on gate guns instead, that would be profitable to all eve and not only to a little group.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2012-11-02 20:02:20 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Threads START at the top of the page, on page One.
Indeed they do, and no problem is presented there.

Quote:
No need to thank me. Cool
Of course not, since the question was left unanswered.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-11-02 20:10:09 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Was good while it lasted.



Yeah like Hulks, awesome work !!


Indeed... Roll

brb
Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#34 - 2012-11-02 20:40:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Not even close.
Actually, very close. It means that there is security — just not the kind given through corporation roles (which incidentally means that it'll be more versatile for mixed-fleet use).


I fail to see how you can say the containers they will introduce are anywhere near the functionality of the CHA divisions. These containers will have no configurable security. They are fixed at "ship owner can access the contents. Nobody else can access the contents".

That is not even close to the level of control we have with the CHA divisions, which can be set individually per division.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2012-11-02 21:31:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Derath Ellecon wrote:
I fail to see how you can say the containers they will introduce are anywhere near the functionality of the CHA divisions.
Simple: by not saying that at all.

The claim was that there would no longer be any way to have any security in the orca's hangar. The new containers provide such security: the pilot picks and chooses what's available for people to take from the hangar by actively managing the inventory and taking things out on request. Therefore, the claim was incorrect — this change does not “totally remove the ability to have any sort of security”.

In fact, in some ways it offers more flexible security than the current corp-role based one does.
Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#36 - 2012-11-02 21:53:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
I fail to see how you can say the containers they will introduce are anywhere near the functionality of the CHA divisions.
Simple: by not saying that at all.

The claim was that there would no longer be any way to have any security in the orca's hangar. The new containers provide such security: the pilot picks and chooses what's available for people to take from the hangar by actively managing the inventory and taking things out on request. Therefore, the claim was incorrect — this change does not “totally remove the ability to have any sort of security”.

In fact, in some ways it offers more flexible security than the current corp-role based one does.



Well maybe that was a claim somewhere else in the thread, but certainly not what I was getting at. And I still don't see how this gives any better flexibility to security.

Under the current system for example, I could give you access to corp tab 1. And I could give player B access to corp tab 2. And I can easily get the items each of you needs without concern for someone taking something they shouldn't

With the new Fleet hangar, the best I can do is give you both access to the fleet hangar, which is global. I would then have to drag an item for you out of a container, and hope you can grab it before someone else who has access potentially snags it instead. Yea that is way more flexible.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#37 - 2012-11-02 22:39:18 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Well maybe that was a claim somewhere else in the thread, but certainly not what I was getting at.
Too bad. It was what I was getting at and your protestations to what I said fall rather flat if you talk about something else.

Quote:
And I still don't see how this gives any better flexibility to security.
Because it's no longer tied to the need to dole out corp roles, which means you don't need to be in the same corp — help, you don't need any corp — to use the security features.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#38 - 2012-11-02 23:15:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrified
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Explain?


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2123982#post2123982

Post #136

I highlighted the important part.

Ok, so here's our current complete plan:

Corp hangars *on ships* are now fleet hangars
Volumes will all stay the same
Divisions are gone, as is any other reliance on corp roles
Ship fitting array is always available to everyone in your corp and/or your fleet
Ship fitting arrays on ships and starbases no longer restrict the number of characters that can use them simulataneously
Fleet hangars and ship maintenance arrays on ships both now have "allow fleet member use" and "allow corp member use" in the inventory UI
We're adding five new non-compressive containers (from 250k m3 down to 1k m3)
For containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning)
Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them)


We're hoping this will be the final set of adjustments, but obviously we're reading the feedback here :)

-Greyscale


The change is not crippling. It mainly removes the invisible - and if you kill me it is gone *poof* cargo hold.
While I will miss the simplicity of having the corporate divisions for mining expeditions, I like the splitting of the option to allow fleet or corp use.

The Orca was always gankable, it just was not profitable (or knowable) when someone was moving BPOs and other valuables in the corporate hangers. This change mainly means your Orca pilots will need to tank more - a DCU at least to make it harder to be ganked.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#39 - 2012-11-03 00:37:50 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
For organization they are **** poor as well. The hangar tabs have the huge advantage that they are not a fixed size. I can put as much or as little as I want in each tab, as long as it all fits within the overall size. Containers just add a layer of tedious frustration as you will have to take into account the size of the items you want to put in your various "tabs" and try to match to the appropriate sized container.

Pretty much this. Sad

Remove standings and insurance.
WhaleCommander
Caucasian Culture Club
#40 - 2012-11-03 05:29:37 UTC
As a hauler, I hate using containers. This is lazyness, instead of CCP fixing division they go "hurr durr, lets makes EVERYTHING accessable and then throw in containers to "fix" that problem."

Containers offer nowhere near the accessibility or convenience of a division hangar, not to mention containers have limitations on how much you can put in it, while divisions are limited by the maximum size of the corp hangar bay.

Fleet hangars will have the issue of people taking crap they weren't supposed to take and creating a bunch of issues.