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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#181 - 2012-11-02 17:22:40 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
I shot a random noob rifter today.
I checked what he has lost and sent him the money plus a bit.

To his question of why i did it....

Because you where there!

He fully accepted and understood that.
Lost a cheap ship, gained much more experience.


That's what happened to me when I started almost 5 years ago, I was flying a Rifter in low sec and went to a belt because that's where people siad you can sometimes find fights, and a Brutix landed on me, webbed/scrammed me and killed me then gave me some isk and traded me my "loot" in station.

I never asked him why he did it. I knew why he did it, because like him I had downloaded a video game where most of the spaceships have GUNs on them and it was pretty easy to tell before installing what the focus of the game was lol.

Well it was easy to figure out for me anyways, according to these forums a few people are still struggling with the concept.....

Well, it was in highsec ... and that's why i posted it.
Doesn't change anything, though.

Learning the hard way still is the best way. Counts for pretty much everything.
Bud Austrene
Secure Haven
#182 - 2012-11-02 18:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Bud Austrene
White Quake wrote:
Hello

As i have stated before i am not new to EvE but new to the forums. As a PvP pilot of nine years, i am find it highly disturbing the amount of hostility that PvP pilots direct at high sec PvE players, i do not use the term care-bear as it is derogatory towards other players who do not choose to game as i do. Below i am going to highlight issues i have with the current PvP pilot attitude towards PvE players.

1. We hate miners - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a different way to you? The truth is, nothing, 0.0 alliances control the market, not empire corps, they never have. So why the hate towards miners?

2. We hate mission runners - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing, The get enjoyment from buying expensive ships, running level 4's, watching there wealth go up and tricking out there ships much like i do for PvP. But, you don't like it? Seems a tad reprehensible to me.

3. We hate Incursions - The Question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing, they love incursions, the love to make so much money, they don't know what to do with it, so what? How does this affect you? It doesn't, you just complain and get them nerfed to hell and back. Seems again, reprehensible.

4. We hate WH corps - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing. You dislike they can hide in bubbles, make money and don't have to fight you, have cloaky ships (even tho you use these yourself). Again, reprehensible.

The bottom line is, PvP pilots dislike PvE pilots for one reason and one reason only, they choose to play EvE Online differently than you, for you to attack the PvE population verbally on the forums and to push your own agenda will not force them to PvP or force them into our play grounds. All you will force them to do is quit.

Also please don't rag in with *market pvp* because thats rubbish, the market is business. Not PvP. U cant swing it that way, so dont even try

I have been a pvp since 2 months after beta when i joined Curse Alliance and have been ever since, yes i have an ice miner (doesn't make me much isk) and yes i have a mission runner in a tengu (makes less isk than null ratting tbfh) so, in that regard.

You need to leave off because it is very sad and reprehensible that PvP pilots think you have god given right to tell other people how to play a game they pay for. You can sit and say Market PvP and Trade PvP and blah blah PvP but they don't see it like that and should not be forced to.

When a player "pays" to play EvE Online, they should not then be forced to play how a PvP pilot demands he does, it is beyond selfish.


Some people need to have their actions validated by convincing others to agree that what they are doing is right and ok.
The basic mentality is that if you are not with me then you are against me and need to be destroyed.
The PVPers really should realize that the PVEers needs to be sustained inorder to provide the victims.
The more PVEers in the game, the more potential victims.
The PVEers need a place to breed and prosper or there will be no victims in the future.

Yes I am an alt. I see no reason to make it easy for bullies and greifers

Miss Teardrop
Doomheim
#183 - 2012-11-02 18:58:04 UTC
I didnt read this thread. Was there Tears ?
White Quake
Doomheim
#184 - 2012-11-02 20:30:37 UTC
Miss Teardrop wrote:
I didnt read this thread. Was there Tears ?


Nope, quite productive actually, showed a real shift in how PVP pilots view empire from the intelligent responses, the rest were just trolls causing fights

But it does show pvp pilots do think that if you ive in high sec, your a piece of crap and need to die

Which in turn shows the mentality of EVE's so called elitists forum warriors who are also pvpers

So, all in all, good thread
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#185 - 2012-11-02 21:26:59 UTC
White Quake wrote:
Miss Teardrop wrote:
I didnt read this thread. Was there Tears ?


Nope, quite productive actually, showed a real shift in how PVP pilots view empire from the intelligent responses, the rest were just trolls causing fights

But it does show pvp pilots do think that if you ive in high sec, your a piece of crap and need to die

Which in turn shows the mentality of EVE's so called elitists forum warriors who are also pvpers

So, all in all, good thread


Did you even read your own thread, brotato?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#186 - 2012-11-02 21:34:29 UTC
Arcosian wrote:
Null sec is perfectly capable of producing ships and modules there's just no one around to do it on a large enough scale. I think the main problems are most null alliances don't have a decent sized indy wing and even if they did nullsec isn't indy friendly. Why you might ask?

Well PVPers seem to look upon carebears aka miners/builders with disdain. PVPers don't think indy types are l33t enough to be in 0.0 unless they PVP and have a good killboard. For most "hardcore" indy guys they like doing indy stuff and could care less about their KB or PVP. They like building and selling stuff for you guys to blow up and nothing is wrong with that.

I've found PVPers are also very impatient. Unless they are constantly shooting stuff they start to twitch and whine to anyone that will listen about not having any fun. Nullsec isn't very friendly when it comes to doing "solo" indy stuff like mining so indy guys might need help locking down a system for mining/ratting or keeping the BS rats from popping their exhumers in belts or scouting JF/freighters moving supplies. So would PVPers run security for 3-4 hrs to help the indy guys? Hell no because that's beneath their l33t PVP skills and won't get them any KM.

Now on to nullsec in general. Nullsec indy is hampered by afk cloakers disrupting mining ops since you never know when that cloaker will warp in and hotdrop 15 supers on your mining op and by roaming fleets of neuts/reds. Indy stuff also requires a pretty substantial infrastructure especially in nullsec due to the lack of stations with slots for building/copy/invention. Couple this with the long times for researching/copying/inventing off BPOs and it becomes impractical since you don't know if 30 days from now your alliance will even own the system. This means your brand new capital BPO could get blown up in a POS or locked in a station you can't enter. The only way around this is doing the bulk of indy stuff in highsec and shipping it to nullsec.

Another thing I have found is most PVPers have no clue how indy works nor the massive amount of materials just 1 toon can burn through each day. A big time industrialist is going to base himself where he will have ready access to all the needed supplies to keep his lines going 24/7. He's not going to relocate to some backwater nullsec system where basic stuff is hard to find.

So instead of PVPers blaming the highsec carebear as the cause for them not having any fun and nullsec being broken maybe they should instead try working with industrialists and give them a reason to move to null in the first place. Maybe instead of calling for nerfs to highsec they should be yelling to CCP to buff nullsec and make it more indy friendly. Believe me if nullsec indy wasn't a PITA then there would be tons of indy guys there.


Despite the fact that you are a dirty, dirty bear, I have to agree with the point you've made.

I have an Industrial alt and I got a lot of spam from NullSec alliances who were eager to recruit me to help them build their capitals, etc etc (no mention of compensation btw...), but talking to them they seemed to know very little about what it takes to court an Industrialist and were quick to anger and rage when I pointed out that moving to their area of space would put me at a major disadvantage compared to a HiSec Industrialist. They raged and raged and didn't even bother to take the time to accommodate me on anything. Oh well, in NullSec the players truly make their own bed and can sleep in it for all I care.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#187 - 2012-11-02 21:36:43 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
White Quake wrote:
Miss Teardrop wrote:
I didnt read this thread. Was there Tears ?


Nope, quite productive actually, showed a real shift in how PVP pilots view empire from the intelligent responses, the rest were just trolls causing fights

But it does show pvp pilots do think that if you ive in high sec, your a piece of crap and need to die

Which in turn shows the mentality of EVE's so called elitists forum warriors who are also pvpers

So, all in all, good thread


Did you even read your own thread, brotato?


I'm going with no.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#188 - 2012-11-02 21:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Xuixien wrote:
Nobody hates HiSec bears.

What people hate is the attitude of entitlement that a lot of HiSec bears display. They seem to think they're entitled to immunity from any and all aggressive acts from other players.


Some of us like to disabuse HiSec bears of their sense of entitlement.



I see this same sense of entitlement from lowsec where they rag about not having enough targets and want missions and incursions moved to their gate camps.

I see this same thing also from nullsec when telling lies about how the removal of local will make it deserted. I trespass in nullsec, it's already deserted.



The most evil you can find in the form of a person is when that person thinks they are good. Nullsec and lowsec players griping about highsec need to take a look in the mirror to see what they hate the most.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#189 - 2012-11-02 22:03:18 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


I see this same thing also from nullsec when telling lies about how the removal of local will make it deserted. I trespass in nullsec, it's already deserted.
.

You can't be that dense.

Hur der, null sec deserted, remove local. Because that will make it not deserted, obviously.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#190 - 2012-11-02 22:05:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
baltec1 wrote:
Arcosian wrote:
Null sec is perfectly capable of producing ships and modules there's just no one around to do it on a large enough scale. I think the main problems are most null alliances don't have a decent sized indy wing and even if they did nullsec isn't indy friendly. Why you might ask?



We dont have nearly enough slots in our stations for industry. I would be building stuff out there right now but its far far cheaper to build it all in empire and just ship it out.

I asked about the number of 0.0 indy slots as a question only yesterday to a fellow Goon.

"Will it fix your 0.0 indy problems and stop you whining" I asked.

"No" was the reply, "we also want manufacturing in the supermarket called highsec to be so expensive that people will come to my cornerstore and buy my stuff at extreme prices"...

I have not seen a response to my statement that "0.0 is in fact asking for state sponsored protectionism".

Slots apprently is not the problem, it's a problem (which I concede). Make what you will.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#191 - 2012-11-02 22:07:58 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


I see this same thing also from nullsec when telling lies about how the removal of local will make it deserted. I trespass in nullsec, it's already deserted.
.

You can't be that dense.

Hur der, null sec deserted, remove local. Because that will make it not deserted, obviously.

Good point. But we won't know Blink

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#192 - 2012-11-02 22:10:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
With mass tantrums comes radical change.

Look at the Exhumer buff, for instance. The elites took a legitimate game mechanic and used it to push CCP to nerfing their favorite pastime.

Now they are childishly ganking every freighter that crosses their path and bumping every miner that has the audacity to undock.

It will end badly for them ('them' being anyone who abuses the system. Not just gankers.) and they will cry a river that it's everyone's fault but theirs. When that's exactly who's fault it is.

Mr Epeen Cool

Yes its the gankers fault the freighter pilots are undocking with 20+ billion in their holds...


Spoken like a true antisocial. "Honestly officer it was the rich dudes fault for buying a ferrari, I wouldn't have stolen it otherwise..."

Or how about this one, "if she wasn't dressed that way..."

All statements of this type serve no other purpose that to divert responsibility for your actions to someone else.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#193 - 2012-11-02 22:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Touval Lysander wrote:

Good point. But we won't know Blink


If only we had an area of space with no local and CCP ran the pvp loss rate of ships over a long span of time.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#194 - 2012-11-02 22:18:22 UTC
Shizuken wrote:


Spoken like a true antisocial. "Honestly officer it was the rich dudes fault for buying a ferrari, I wouldn't have stolen it otherwise..."

Or how about this one, "if she wasn't dressed that way..."

All statements of this type serve no other purpose that to divert responsibility for your actions to someone else.


Im a pirate. We tend to target the ships stuffed full of gold and spices.

Also its kinda funny calling a member of one of the largest communities antisocial...
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#195 - 2012-11-02 22:21:35 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
Spoken like a true antisocial. "Honestly officer it was the rich dudes fault for buying a ferrari, I wouldn't have stolen it otherwise..."

Or how about this one, "if she wasn't dressed that way..."

All statements of this type serve no other purpose that to divert responsibility for your actions to someone else.

You're playing a game in which people take different roles, and conflict is encouraged. The fact there are "bad guys" who do things that would otherwise be amoral in real life, and your interactions with both them and your allies is the whole point. It is also why the EULA is so very light on harassment and generally being an ass.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#196 - 2012-11-02 22:22:31 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Arcosian wrote:
Null sec is perfectly capable of producing ships and modules there's just no one around to do it on a large enough scale. I think the main problems are most null alliances don't have a decent sized indy wing and even if they did nullsec isn't indy friendly. Why you might ask?



We dont have nearly enough slots in our stations for industry. I would be building stuff out there right now but its far far cheaper to build it all in empire and just ship it out.

I asked about the number of 0.0 indy slots as a question only yesterday to a fellow Goon.

"Will it fix your 0.0 indy problems and stop you whining" I asked.

"No" was the reply, "we also want manufacturing in the supermarket called highsec to be so expensive that people will come to my cornerstore and buy my stuff at extreme prices"...

I have not seen a response to my statement that "0.0 is in fact asking for state sponsored protectionism".

Slots apprently is not the problem, it's a problem (which I concede). Make what you will.

Don't do that.

You're refering specifically to me, and that's not even close to what I said.


In otherwords, you're a ******* liar. And I really don't appreciate you taking something I said and twisting it to support your arguement.
Krax As
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2012-11-02 22:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Krax As
I am reading through all these threads in GD where the Null-Players whine and rage about the Highsec players and vice versa.
One thing i see (and i am not grasping every aspect of the game at all, but who does ? ):

- Almost all Null players have a Highsec Char / toon / Alt. why is that so ??
-because:
Highsec offers main aspects of the game not viable in Null with the current system (Indy / Production / market "stability")

I played in null. I enjoyed it. (not all but most)
But my main goal was (and I think i always made that clear from the get go) was to get Indy stuff going in Null. Once i got there, it was CTA all the time, I was called a coward carebear when i went ratting to earn some money for new ships i had not yet lost but wanted to get to be even eligible for a replacement.

I agree with what was said earlier here: if most null corps / alliances would treat some carebears only tad better, you would have a lot more care-bears starting to gro some balls and fight with you when needed. BUT only as long as you let them also do their main thing, and maybe eben set stuff up to help and assist them doing it.

I ´ve seen null players with a bunch of alts constructing their own capitals, because they could. i always envied them. because they had the time and the chars / toons and they had the standings in the corp / alliance to do so. let indy players become helpful members of your elite corps, and share the experience you enjoy. work together more, everybody wins.

also, but thats another thing we have read a gazillion times in the forums: rebalance risk / rewward. if i canot gain anything in NULL except boredom shooting structures for some alliance whith an inner circle who talsk down to all the rest, or HAVE to be on everytime and explain why RL prevented me from joining, well so long Null will not for me.

but if it would still be possible to get something in return for even trying to get to null.. now we´re talking. let players leave a mark again. reward people for going to low and null. and for hells sake, make it viable to freakin stay there, make it possible to live there and sustain yourself, your corp and your alliance without having to rely on high. make the players wanting to be the wealthiest with the shiniest ships and the biggest wahtnot HAVE TO GO TO ***** NULL in orer to achive that.

i for one decided I will go back to null sooner or later, because the teamplay you experience there beats everything highsec had to offer for me up until now. BUT, only if the right conditions are met... risk / reward. respect for my playstyle. the understanding that different kinds of parts are needed for a great machine to work ....
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#198 - 2012-11-02 22:31:46 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:

I asked about the number of 0.0 indy slots as a question only yesterday to a fellow Goon.

"Will it fix your 0.0 indy problems and stop you whining" I asked.

"No" was the reply, "we also want manufacturing in the supermarket called highsec to be so expensive that people will come to my cornerstore and buy my stuff at extreme prices"...

I have not seen a response to my statement that "0.0 is in fact asking for state sponsored protectionism".

Slots apprently is not the problem, it's a problem (which I concede). Make what you will.

The problem is that, even discounting the inherent risks of living and manufacturing stuff in 0.0 (suppose you never get blown up or whatever), it is far less practical to do your industry there rather than hisec. Lack of slots is part of that, and probably one of the easiest to fix. The harder fixes are things like lack of resource flow crippling non-vertical industry operations (which handle everything from mining/research to final ship).

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#199 - 2012-11-02 22:34:22 UTC
I have never, not once, ever been "treated poorly" because I'm a "carebear" in null.

I was even sponsored into GoonWaffe, knowing that I had no interested in pvp and just wanted to build and sell stuff.

Playing with people is playing with people, and YMMV. Not "everyone" is treated like a worthelss piece of **** beause they like to build and sell ****, by our corp.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#200 - 2012-11-02 22:35:55 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:

I asked about the number of 0.0 indy slots as a question only yesterday to a fellow Goon.

"Will it fix your 0.0 indy problems and stop you whining" I asked.

"No" was the reply, "we also want manufacturing in the supermarket called highsec to be so expensive that people will come to my cornerstore and buy my stuff at extreme prices"...

I have not seen a response to my statement that "0.0 is in fact asking for state sponsored protectionism".

Slots apprently is not the problem, it's a problem (which I concede). Make what you will.

The problem is that, even discounting the inherent risks of living and manufacturing stuff in 0.0 (suppose you never get blown up or whatever), it is far less practical to do your industry there rather than hisec. Lack of slots is part of that, and probably one of the easiest to fix. The harder fixes are things like lack of resource flow crippling non-vertical industry operations (which handle everything from mining/research to final ship).

He's trying to twist me saying that more slots isn't enough, into me saying something I didn't even remotely say.