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Why are Corporations So Invasive???

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Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#141 - 2012-11-02 20:47:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Moe Doobie wrote:
I just want to have some fun man, s**t....


You're in the wrong game.

BINGO.....

Game <> Fun

This is Eve.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#142 - 2012-11-02 20:47:48 UTC


Alright....I get it. it's not fool proof, but it's SOMETHING to weed out SOME potential spies, okay.

I gave my API. My issue isn't API. My issue is the FULL API.

As others have mentioned, Eve mails. Private.
Another poster gave a good way to actually hide trades.

As I also said earlier I do understand people invest lots of time and energy into this game. TOO much for some jackknob to come and just steal all of your stuff. I totally get that. I simply, again, don't how my transaction history shows that.

...but w/e.

Thems the rules.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#143 - 2012-11-02 20:50:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Yep, well, it just boils down to "if you aren't comfortable giving them what they want, don't be surprised (or complain) when they don't accept you".

There are plenty of other corps for you to choose from.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ginger Barbarella
#144 - 2012-11-02 20:52:14 UTC
Moe Doobie wrote:


Alright....I get it. it's not fool proof, but it's SOMETHING to weed out SOME potential spies, okay.




Spies. Spais... Yeah, I'm interested in what your pixels are doing so I can report on them to someone else that can't manage his own pixels.

It's a ******* game, people. Some of you take it way to seriously.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2012-11-02 20:54:12 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

There are plenty of other corps for you to choose from.


Yeah some are more strict with API checks than others. Plenty of good corps that wont scrutinize your every transaction. But as someone said, any corp/alliance worth joining will have some form of API check. If you have nothing to hide theres really not much to worry about though. w/e
Robert De'Arneth
#146 - 2012-11-02 20:55:03 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Moe Doobie wrote:


Alright....I get it. it's not fool proof, but it's SOMETHING to weed out SOME potential spies, okay.




Spies. Spais... Yeah, I'm interested in what your pixels are doing so I can report on them to someone else that can't manage his own pixels.

It's a ******* game, people. Some of you take it way to seriously.


It is a game, and having someone join your corp with purpose to steal all your stuff may not be fun for them. And you may not be interesetd, but there are people who make accounts for that purpose. It being game, does not mean they should make it easy.

I'm a nerd, you can check my stats!! Skilling Int/Mem at 45 sp per minute is how I mack!     I'm like a lapdog, all bark no bite. 
Ginger Barbarella
#147 - 2012-11-02 21:26:10 UTC
Robert De'Arneth wrote:


It is a game, and having someone join your corp with purpose to steal all your stuff may not be fun for them. And you may not be interesetd, but there are people who make accounts for that purpose. It being game, does not mean they should make it easy.


I get the whole "Guiding Hand" thing, I really do. Some of this game's most epic infiltrations are things of pure beauty that'll go down as legend. (And no, I'm not talking about the disgraced lawyer.) When done right and with patience it's serious woody time. Lol

Want to join my corp? No problem. Two things are gonna happen:
1) You won't be asked to move all your swag into a corp hangar, and I don't want access to your swag. Keep it wherever you're comfortable.
2) I won't give you access to valuable assets. Ever. At all.

Don't like that? Keep walking. Why have a corp? I like teaching people, and I like helping people out (yes, I give out a lot in isk and goods yearly). But do you honestly think I'm stupid enough to give you access to valuable corp assets? No, I'm not. And I'll never tell you about the tower(s) that the alts have that control the serious prints and materials.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#148 - 2012-11-02 21:33:27 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Robert De'Arneth wrote:


It is a game, and having someone join your corp with purpose to steal all your stuff may not be fun for them. And you may not be interesetd, but there are people who make accounts for that purpose. It being game, does not mean they should make it easy.


I get the whole "Guiding Hand" thing, I really do. Some of this game's most epic infiltrations are things of pure beauty that'll go down as legend. (And no, I'm not talking about the disgraced lawyer.) When done right and with patience it's serious woody time. Lol

Want to join my corp? No problem. Two things are gonna happen:
1) You won't be asked to move all your swag into a corp hangar, and I don't want access to your swag. Keep it wherever you're comfortable.
2) I won't give you access to valuable assets. Ever. At all.

Don't like that? Keep walking. Why have a corp? I like teaching people, and I like helping people out (yes, I give out a lot in isk and goods yearly). But do you honestly think I'm stupid enough to give you access to valuable corp assets? No, I'm not. And I'll never tell you about the tower(s) that the alts have that control the serious prints and materials.

Good points in this.

Perhaps the corp managment rework we're expecting (and been praying for) will alleviate much of the neccessity for so much "security"...

Imagine if Novell security in the "old days" was as bad as corp management is today. You'd have to do a police check and sign an NDA to get access to a computer and the documents on it to do your work.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#149 - 2012-11-02 21:59:03 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Robert De'Arneth wrote:


It is a game, and having someone join your corp with purpose to steal all your stuff may not be fun for them. And you may not be interesetd, but there are people who make accounts for that purpose. It being game, does not mean they should make it easy.


I get the whole "Guiding Hand" thing, I really do. Some of this game's most epic infiltrations are things of pure beauty that'll go down as legend. (And no, I'm not talking about the disgraced lawyer.) When done right and with patience it's serious woody time. Lol

Want to join my corp? No problem. Two things are gonna happen:
1) You won't be asked to move all your swag into a corp hangar, and I don't want access to your swag. Keep it wherever you're comfortable.
2) I won't give you access to valuable assets. Ever. At all.

Don't like that? Keep walking. Why have a corp? I like teaching people, and I like helping people out (yes, I give out a lot in isk and goods yearly). But do you honestly think I'm stupid enough to give you access to valuable corp assets? No, I'm not. And I'll never tell you about the tower(s) that the alts have that control the serious prints and materials.


That is pretty much status quo for most small to medium sized corps.

(Disgraced lawyer? Smile That's a new one. Try retired.)

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#150 - 2012-11-02 23:37:41 UTC
Moe Doobie wrote:


As I also said earlier I do understand people invest lots of time and energy into this game. TOO much for some jackknob to come and just steal all of your stuff. I totally get that. I simply, again, don't how my transaction history shows that.



A big red flag out of transaction history is getting large amounts of funds from other characters. It usually means you're an alt or an RMTer.

Both things are people you wanna reject unless of course the fact that you are an alt is put up front with something along the lines of "I'm an alt of an existing member" or "I'm a on a combat alt that is funded by my missioning main" and in both cases they want confirmation from the main character.

The Drake is a Lie
Ginger Barbarella
#151 - 2012-11-02 23:47:27 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:

Good points in this.

Perhaps the corp managment rework we're expecting (and been praying for) will alleviate much of the neccessity for so much "security"...

Imagine if Novell security in the "old days" was as bad as corp management is today. You'd have to do a police check and sign an NDA to get access to a computer and the documents on it to do your work.


There's nothing wrong with compartmentalizing the knowledge base in any large corp that is paranoid enough... Your average squad leaders don't need to know where those caps are massing, and when the strike time is. And if the squad leaders don't know, they can't blab to anyone. Same with Wing commanders, especially where caps are involved. Generals never telegraph the invasion plans to the grunts on the front line (ie, someone that just joined a corp). Speculate all you like, and maybe you'll get lucky. And maybe you won't.

There's a reason why corps are ripped off for billions. And I doubt very seriously that it's from toons that have spent years as part of "the team" (except in those sweet, rare circumstances of patient planning and scut work). The VAST majority I've heard about were just people that feined need in emergency situations, and rather than saying "No", someone just gave them access without knowing exactly what it meant. I don't fault the thieves one whit when this happens: I fault the corp leadership for screwing up. It often has absolutely NOTHING to do with the background of a toon, and their API wouldn't have shown a damn thing.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Ginger Barbarella
#152 - 2012-11-02 23:51:08 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Moe Doobie wrote:


As I also said earlier I do understand people invest lots of time and energy into this game. TOO much for some jackknob to come and just steal all of your stuff. I totally get that. I simply, again, don't how my transaction history shows that.



A big red flag out of transaction history is getting large amounts of funds from other characters. It usually means you're an alt or an RMTer.

Both things are people you wanna reject unless of course the fact that you are an alt is put up front with something along the lines of "I'm an alt of an existing member" or "I'm a on a combat alt that is funded by my missioning main" and in both cases they want confirmation from the main character.


For the record, I REGULARLY transfer hundreds of millions of isk between alts for market activity or to buy blinkies. Your standard above would mean I'm a spai.

And it goes to show just how foolish that kind of standard is (and how the transaction history means precisely d!ck). If I'm going to set my heart on infiltration the way people here are talking about, I'd do it on a clean, brand new account, do all the tutorials, spend some time in FW losing ships, get into a couple throw-away corps of people that I've just met, and then started sniffing around the door.

Tell me exactly what having my API will show you about me and my intentions.

Let me answer for you: nothing.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#153 - 2012-11-03 00:03:44 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
Moe Doobie wrote:


As I also said earlier I do understand people invest lots of time and energy into this game. TOO much for some jackknob to come and just steal all of your stuff. I totally get that. I simply, again, don't how my transaction history shows that.



A big red flag out of transaction history is getting large amounts of funds from other characters. It usually means you're an alt or an RMTer.

Both things are people you wanna reject unless of course the fact that you are an alt is put up front with something along the lines of "I'm an alt of an existing member" or "I'm a on a combat alt that is funded by my missioning main" and in both cases they want confirmation from the main character.


For the record, I REGULARLY transfer hundreds of millions of isk between alts for market activity or to buy blinkies. Your standard above would mean I'm a spai.

And it goes to show just how foolish that kind of standard is (and how the transaction history means precisely d!ck). If I'm going to set my heart on infiltration the way people here are talking about, I'd do it on a clean, brand new account, do all the tutorials, spend some time in FW losing ships, get into a couple throw-away corps of people that I've just met, and then started sniffing around the door.

Tell me exactly what having my API will show you about me and my intentions.

Let me answer for you: nothing.


Without context it would make you look spy-ish, but I said that UNLESS there was something up front like the alt being a known alt of the already trusted main.

The Drake is a Lie
Ginger Barbarella
#154 - 2012-11-03 01:06:06 UTC
Xercodo wrote:

Without context it would make you look spy-ish, but I said that UNLESS there was something up front like the alt being a known alt of the already trusted main.


That's circular logic. If your main is in the corp and trusted, you'd bring an alt in to rip it off?!?!? Why not just use the trusted main to rip it off? Where's the spy? "No, no, *I* didn't rip you off, it was my ALT on that account!!"

Which brings us back to: wtf good is the API? WTF good is "looking into" a persons history and transaction history? None.

And, according to you, if I have the best intentions and want to join a corp, with my history of transferring large amounts of isk between toons, I'm immediately labelled a spai like the children accuse each other in while in the militia chat channel.

Uh, yeah.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#155 - 2012-11-03 03:33:45 UTC
What;s funny is that when I first gate my API, I just checked all the boxes.

Then of course they changed stuff so I had to make a new API. So I lazily used a link that gets you to the page and auto-checks the boxes you need.

The funny thing is there's a whole page worth of information about what/how they use the information on our wiki. Never noticed.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2012-11-03 03:55:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Moe Doobie
I don't like it. I get enough of the damn government snooping around in our business, taxing me to death, etc.

Now I have to deal with a big brother in my hobby too?

Reading my mail messages, transactions, etc.

I really hope CCP stops this crap in the future. I damn near quit the game over it, and I know there are others who have in the past and will in the future because of it. No one likes being poked and prodded that way, especially not in something that they feel is a hobby and part of their ESCAPE from RL bs...



Guess I'll just have to stomach it until I either get over the irritation or some other game similar to eve comes along.

The game is fun and it's very soft on my hectic schedule.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#157 - 2012-11-03 04:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
I stopped reading at page 2 and submit this, form you're own corp and get people to join and make your own rules, I don't care for api checks either so I have no need for a corp that does.
Oaiso
#158 - 2012-11-03 04:53:33 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Not to mention it allows people to connect other dots. There are 3rd party tools that allow people to see your chat history. By looking at all the activity of your character and sifting through chat history people can figure out a lot about who you really are.



You guys in a lot of ways are just proxy accounts

You have absolutely no privacy and you know if you even say something out of line, you're in trouble because they actively monitor your emails, your posts, even your chat history.

You really aren't individuals playing the game.

I see it pretty clearly now

0.0 the slavish hordes and the Free Peoples of High Sec with varying levels in-between.

"why dey so scared to give fullAPI??"

Some people don't want to RP as someone else's property.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#159 - 2012-11-03 08:07:09 UTC
Oaiso wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Not to mention it allows people to connect other dots. There are 3rd party tools that allow people to see your chat history. By looking at all the activity of your character and sifting through chat history people can figure out a lot about who you really are.



You guys in a lot of ways are just proxy accounts

You have absolutely no privacy and you know if you even say something out of line, you're in trouble because they actively monitor your emails, your posts, even your chat history.

You really aren't individuals playing the game.

I see it pretty clearly now

0.0 the slavish hordes and the Free Peoples of High Sec with varying levels in-between.

"why dey so scared to give fullAPI??"

Some people don't want to RP as someone else's property.


Have you ever held a job or been in a position where you were privy to sensitive information? That's generally a lengthy legal process, in the case of a diplomat with top secret clearance, a multi-month one. And yes, they keep an eye on you.

EVE is extremely tame by comparison, and its preventing the same thing.
Oaiso
#160 - 2012-11-03 08:09:19 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:

Have you ever held a job or been in a position where you were privy to sensitive information? That's generally a lengthy legal process, in the case of a diplomat with top secret clearance, a multi-month one. And yes, they keep an eye on you.

EVE is extremely tame by comparison, and its preventing the same thing.


Continue to compare yourself to 007, nerd