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Mobile Warp Disruptor Question
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F'elch
Wall Street Trading
#1 - 2012-10-28 11:07:05 UTC
I've seen these deployed in front of gates and behind gates to trap the unsuspecting traveller.

My question is, can they be deployed at a midpoint in space between gates, in the middle of nowhere, to pull ships out of warp?

Thanks.
eddie valvetino
Bi-Polar Bears
#2 - 2012-10-28 13:22:03 UTC
F'elch wrote:
I've seen these deployed in front of gates and behind gates to trap the unsuspecting traveller.

My question is, can they be deployed at a midpoint in space between gates, in the middle of nowhere, to pull ships out of warp?

Thanks.


No
F'elch
Wall Street Trading
#3 - 2012-10-28 14:13:58 UTC
That is a great shame.

Thanks for the reply.
Itala D'Uhmri
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-10-31 18:35:28 UTC
I don't live in null, but I'm almost certain that you *can.*

I'm pretty sure drag bubbles are an originally unintentional sideeffect.
Dracan02
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#5 - 2012-11-01 01:41:06 UTC
i am fairly sure you can put them between gates in the middle of a system, tho you will not catch many ships as they have to actual hit you bubble and more people in null bounce from planets so they can scan the gate before warping to it.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#6 - 2012-11-01 01:49:07 UTC
Itala D'Uhmri wrote:
I don't live in null, but I'm almost certain that you *can.*


Dracan02 wrote:
i am fairly sure you can put them between gates in the middle of a system


The answer is: no, you can't. A bubble must be on grid with the destination (and then also aligned with you) for it to catch you. An off-grid bubble, even one directly along your warp path, has no effect whatsoever.
Evolution1979
Hull Down Inc.
#7 - 2012-11-01 14:33:05 UTC
Mobile Warp Disruptor

I'll just leave this here, it awnsers all of your questions!
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-11-02 02:58:46 UTC
Itala D'Uhmri wrote:
I don't live in null, but I'm almost certain that you *can.*

I'm pretty sure drag bubbles are an originally unintentional sideeffect.


Nope. Used to be able to, and nullsec is littered with anchored "Midpoint" bubbles that you just fly right through now.
Othran
Route One
#9 - 2012-11-02 11:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Evolution1979 wrote:
Mobile Warp Disruptor

I'll just leave this here, it awnsers all of your questions!


Its wrong too Roll

Bubbles will pull (or stop) you at ANY distance provided its on-grid and aligned with the warp emergence point. Eg if you stretch the grid 900km and put a bubble in-line there then it'll pull you 900km.

Been a long time since bubbles were limited to 150km (edit - which I assume is what the wiki article is trying to say - badly).
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#10 - 2012-11-02 14:32:40 UTC
While you certainly can grid-fu a bubble 900km off the gate, it's more useful to place one ~80km off, so they have to either burn back to the gate or away from it before it gets in warp range. A 900km bubble just means you have to get clear before you can actually warp to gate.
Othran
Route One
#11 - 2012-11-02 17:13:29 UTC
Dibblerette wrote:
While you certainly can grid-fu a bubble 900km off the gate, it's more useful to place one ~80km off, so they have to either burn back to the gate or away from it before it gets in warp range. A 900km bubble just means you have to get clear before you can actually warp to gate.


It makes no odds really unless there's a fight on-gate. Even then its more likely you'd bounce off the nearest planet/bookmark/tam to get to gate unless you're in a fast ship.

Eg you put a drag bubble up @ 100km and I land in it. Assuming I can't win the fight I'll burn out the bubble and warp to a celestial rather than gate as its almost always faster.

Worth noting that if you setup multiple bubbles inline then even the long drag bubble is effective, especially on gates with no planets nearby.

Anyway the wiki article is wrong. Quelle surprise mmm? Roll
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2012-11-06 01:35:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
To catch a warping ship the bubble must be setup as follows:
- The ‘device’ generating the bubble (anchored item, hictor, or dictor) must be ongrid [1] with the warp destination;
- The bubble sphere must intersect the warp path, or a straight line extrapolation of the warp path continued in the direction of the warp (perhaps with a 5-degree fudge factor but I am not sure of that);
- The bubble must be active before the warp was commenced; and
- The warping ship is not an interdiction nullifier equipped strategic cruiser.

When these four factors are satisfied the warping ship concludes their warp at the edge of the bubble that is nearest to where the line of their warp intersects the sphere of the bubble..

The critical issue that OP seems to be asking about is the first of the conditions I mentioned above. The location of the bubble is not a matter of distance (in km) but is very importantly a matter of grid … the bubble device needs to be ongrid with the warp destination.

A gate warp stop bubble (for example), placed to pull someone out of warp before their intended outgate destination, can be effective many thousands of km from that outgate providing the bubble is still ongrid with the outgate. Theoretically it is possible to place a working bubble in mid-space between gates, but the effort required to implement that degree of gridfu is simply prohibitive. Several thousand km is not such a drama if you really want to try.


[1] Ongrid = on the same grid as

Grid is that volume of space within which two ships are able to see each other on overview. It’s kind of an eve analogue to the hexagonal lattice that marks classical wargame boards. If you can see another ship in your overview then you and that ship are on the same grid. It is possible to be very close (e.g. 1km from) another uncloaked ship and not be able to see it on your overview if that other ship is on another grid*.

A few facts about grid

In eve the grid is a 3-dimensional construct and it is dynamic. A grid does not exist until an object (e.g. ship, planet, cosmic anomaly) comes into existence, either thru warping to that location in space, being placed there, or spawning there. Generally a new, or virgin, grid is roughly spherical with dimensions that appear to vary with the nature of the object spawning the grid (I’m still working on those details, but grid measurement is a bit like trying to ascertain the health of Schrodinger's cat).

Grid size and shape can be altered by player activity. This process has come to be known as gridfu (pron gridfoo and probably a contraction of Grid-****-Up) and is very well described in the old GFS / GARPA manual – Well worth the read if you wish to learn about grid. Google is your friend.

A grid can be expanded in any direction and all directions, seemingly forever within the constraints of the expansion method and time available between downtimes. A grid can be contracted in any direction, but not all directions. The limiting factor for grid reduction appears to be a hard lower volume for a grid, so if you reduce the grid size too far in most directions it will bulge out in other directions. There also appears to be a semi-fixed minimum dimension of the grid associated with 'fixed' items such as stargate. That distance is somewhere around 140-160km from the fixed item. A grid that you spawn and leave, perhaps by dropping a can at a safespot and going away, can be manipulated to have quite short dimensions (e.g. 30km) in some, but not all, directions.
Two neighbouring grids cannot merge – one can despawn and that volume of space can be incorporated into the other by expanding it, but you cannot force the merging of two adjacent grids while they still exist as grids (downtime is different in that all objects are respawned after downtime … so two items that may be on separate grids before downtime are often on the same grid after downtime, if they’re close enough).

A cloaked ship is not decloaked by coming close to an object if that object is on another grid.

It is possible prosecute attacks between grids, but that's not a grid-101 topic.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
replicator 0001
Nullbear Tear Extractors
Hostile Intervention
#13 - 2012-11-06 11:35:04 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
To catch a warping ship the bubble must be setup as follows:
- The ‘device’ generating the bubble (anchored item, hictor, or dictor) must be ongrid [1] with the warp destination;
- The bubble sphere must intersect the warp path, or a straight line extrapolation of the warp path continued in the direction of the warp (perhaps with a 5-degree fudge factor but I am not sure of that);
- The bubble must be active before the warp was commenced; and
- The warping ship is not an interdiction nullifier equipped strategic cruiser.

When these four factors are satisfied the warping ship concludes their warp at the edge of the bubble that is nearest to where the line of their warp intersects the sphere of the bubble..

The critical issue that OP seems to be asking about is the first of the conditions I mentioned above. The location of the bubble is not a matter of distance (in km) but is very importantly a matter of grid … the bubble device needs to be ongrid with the warp destination.

A gate warp stop bubble (for example), placed to pull someone out of warp before their intended outgate destination, can be effective many thousands of km from that outgate providing the bubble is still ongrid with the outgate. Theoretically it is possible to place a working bubble in mid-space between gates, but the effort required to implement that degree of gridfu is simply prohibitive. Several thousand km is not such a drama if you really want to try.


[1] Ongrid = on the same grid as

Grid is that volume of space within which two ships are able to see each other on overview. It’s kind of an eve analogue to the hexagonal lattice that marks classical wargame boards. If you can see another ship in your overview then you and that ship are on the same grid. It is possible to be very close (e.g. 1km from) another uncloaked ship and not be able to see it on your overview if that other ship is on another grid*.

A few facts about grid

In eve the grid is a 3-dimensional construct and it is dynamic. A grid does not exist until an object (e.g. ship, planet, cosmic anomaly) comes into existence, either thru warping to that location in space, being placed there, or spawning there. Generally a new, or virgin, grid is roughly spherical with dimensions that appear to vary with the nature of the object spawning the grid (I’m still working on those details, but grid measurement is a bit like trying to ascertain the health of Schrodinger's cat).

Grid size and shape can be altered by player activity. This process has come to be known as gridfu (pron gridfoo and probably a contraction of Grid-****-Up) and is very well described in the old GFS / GARPA manual – Well worth the read if you wish to learn about grid. Google is your friend.

A grid can be expanded in any direction and all directions, seemingly forever within the constraints of the expansion method and time available between downtimes. A grid can be contracted in any direction, but not all directions. The limiting factor for grid reduction appears to be a hard lower volume for a grid, so if you reduce the grid size too far in most directions it will bulge out in other directions. There also appears to be a semi-fixed minimum dimension of the grid associated with 'fixed' items such as stargate. That distance is somewhere around 140-160km from the fixed item. A grid that you spawn and leave, perhaps by dropping a can at a safespot and going away, can be manipulated to have quite short dimensions (e.g. 30km) in some, but not all, directions.
Two neighbouring grids cannot merge – one can despawn and that volume of space can be incorporated into the other by expanding it, but you cannot force the merging of two adjacent grids while they still exist as grids (downtime is different in that all objects are respawned after downtime … so two items that may be on separate grids before downtime are often on the same grid after downtime, if they’re close enough).

A cloaked ship is not decloaked by coming close to an object if that object is on another grid.

It is possible prosecute attacks between grids, but that's not a grid-101 topic.



It used to be possible to create ginormous grids, on the order of hundreds of AU across :)

I never tested what happens if you warp from 500 AU off the bubble, straight towards it, but without enough cap to reach it :(
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2012-11-07 05:48:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
replicator 0001 wrote:

It used to be possible to create ginormous grids, on the order of hundreds of AU across :)


That is still possible. the only thing that limits that sort of gridfu effort is the resources available (number of ships) and the time between downtimes ...of course you also need to know what you're doing.
When eve 'reboots' after downtime most of your gridfu activities are undone.


replicator 0001 wrote:

I never tested what happens if you warp from 500 AU off the bubble, straight towards it, but without enough cap to reach it :(


[EDIT DELETE] Ooops, sorry. i comppletely misread the comment. Do'oh!

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Egdod
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-11-07 17:07:35 UTC
I think exactly this until two nights ago.

There be something strange happen down in Tribute. Some goonpet are using a bubble that stop you offgrid. I know some people will think I imagine this or not tell truth or fail for some other reason, but meh this happen.

I travel through Tribute with scout. My scout jump into system and warp off to celestial and then to outgate. All clear so I jump through and warp to outgate. Soon after I find myself, my main toon, in the middle of a medium bubble (in middle not at edge) with T1 drones all around me. Bubble is offgrid and near 1000km from my outgate. My scout, warped to outgate and waiting, cannot see me or bubble or drones or attackers.
I killed and podded in seconds and person who post before me know something about this.

This was very strange. Bubble working like normal stop bubble but is off grid from outgate. Is not in middle of warp, but just around 100km away. But really strange is that I end in middle of bubble not at edge. I think drones just for decloaking.

I take covops back that system and try see what they doing.