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Why are Corporations So Invasive???

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Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-11-02 00:22:17 UTC



I applied to a well known Corp/Alliance on my main, and sent their recruiter my API key. I unchecked everything that gave info on how much isk I have and my transactions. They turned down my app because of it.

Yes I understand this is just a game, but my irritation due to this level of invasiveness comes from RL; my Employer didn't even ask me how much money I have and request an account of every transaction I've had that year. I don't like people knowing that sort of info about me. It's none of your business what I buy and how much money I have.

They claimed it was to ensure I wasn't being funded by a main for "Awoxing" or w/e....w/e that means.

WTF dude??? W/e happened to just sending an app to a guild/alliance/whatever, maybe doing a short interview then joining up with some cool folks and shooting stuff???

What the hell with this invasiveness/red tape; join such and such forum and wait 3 months, sit around for hours waiting for an interview, etc??

I understand there's a need to prevent spying but really? I mean if I were a spy, I would be MORE than willing to give you whatever you ask for; whatever it takes to get in. Especially since I'm probably an exp player so I already pretty much know what you'll consider a red flag.

Damn man, it just seems like EVERYTHING in this game is so friggin complicated...I just want to have some fun man, s**t....
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#2 - 2012-11-02 00:23:03 UTC
Because of the omnipresence of spies and sabotage.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#3 - 2012-11-02 00:28:02 UTC
Cuz bad players still think the API will do something to prevent spys.

Really the only thing API is usefull for is to actually spy on the people giving you their API. Kind of sad that there's an abundance of corps that wont recruit unless you give them that info.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#4 - 2012-11-02 00:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Moe Doobie wrote:



I applied to a well known Corp/Alliance on my main, and sent their recruiter my API key. I unchecked everything that gave info on how much isk I have and my transactions. They turned down my app because of it.

Yes I understand this is just a game, but my irritation due to this level of invasiveness comes from RL; my Employer didn't even ask me how much money I have and request an account of every transaction I've had that year. I don't like people knowing that sort of info about me. It's none of your business what I buy and how much money I have.

They claimed it was to ensure I wasn't being funded by a main for "Awoxing" or w/e....w/e that means.

WTF dude??? W/e happened to just sending an app to a guild/alliance/whatever, maybe doing a short interview then joining up with some cool folks and shooting stuff???

What the hell with this invasiveness/red tape; join such and such forum and wait 3 months, sit around for hours waiting for an interview, etc??

I understand there's a need to prevent spying but really? I mean if I were a spy, I would be MORE than willing to give you whatever you ask for; whatever it takes to get in. Especially since I'm probably an exp player so I already pretty much know what you'll consider a red flag.

Damn man, it just seems like EVERYTHING in this game is so friggin complicated...I just want to have some fun man, s**t....



What Akirei said, and people are paranoid and unable to filter out the bs. ..also, it helps to consider that anyone that has that much dredging required of your personal assets and history probably isn't someone you want to work with anyway.

I've used Full API to assist with determining a recruits history and activities before, but I've also recruited based on nothing but intuition, and turned many down for the same reasons, even when they provided an apparently good API.
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Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-11-02 00:28:33 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Because of the omnipresence of spies and sabotage.



Ok....I'll be clearer about my confusion:

If I'm a spy, I'm after something, right?

I'm probably an experienced player, right?

Me being a spy AND experienced, I already know what API keys show, and what you would consider a red flag, right?

So then wouldn't you expect me to apply with a pristine toon?

How does my transaction history help you determine whether or not I'm a spy? Is this foolproof?
Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-11-02 00:31:04 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
Cuz bad players still think the API will do something to prevent spys.

Really the only thing API is usefull for is to actually spy on the people giving you their API. Kind of sad that there's an abundance of corps that wont recruit unless you give them that info.



Right, I mean what's keeping them from, say, targeting me for ransoms now that they know how much money I have? That's one of the reasons I didn't show it.

When I first got here, everyone told me to be slow to trust folks, so that's what I'm doing. For all I know their recruitment officer has a pirate alt just collecting APIs from applicant to see who to gank....
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#7 - 2012-11-02 00:32:42 UTC
Moe Doobie wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Because of the omnipresence of spies and sabotage.



Ok....I'll be clearer about my confusion:

If I'm a spy, I'm after something, right?

I'm probably an experienced player, right?

Me being a spy AND experienced, I already know what API keys show, and what you would consider a red flag, right?

So then wouldn't you expect me to apply with a pristine toon?

How does my transaction history help you determine whether or not I'm a spy? Is this foolproof?


See above, regarding bad players thinking API can identify spies.

You can easily hide financial data in different ways that won't show on the API where the money is coming from.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#8 - 2012-11-02 00:33:59 UTC
Moe Doobie wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Because of the omnipresence of spies and sabotage.



Ok....I'll be clearer about my confusion:

If I'm a spy, I'm after something, right?

I'm probably an experienced player, right?

Me being a spy AND experienced, I already know what API keys show, and what you would consider a red flag, right?

So then wouldn't you expect me to apply with a pristine toon?

How does my transaction history help you determine whether or not I'm a spy? Is this foolproof?


No. It's not a matter of stupidity on the part of the spy. A pristine toon is just as suspicious, (perhaps more so to some), as any other. It does help to see what kind of transactions a person makes, but ultimately, unless they are doing something extravagant or weird, it is relatively pointless.
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Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#9 - 2012-11-02 00:34:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Silk daShocka
Moe Doobie wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:
Cuz bad players still think the API will do something to prevent spys.

Really the only thing API is usefull for is to actually spy on the people giving you their API. Kind of sad that there's an abundance of corps that wont recruit unless you give them that info.



Right, I mean what's keeping them from, say, targeting me for ransoms now that they know how much money I have? That's one of the reasons I didn't show it.

When I first got here, everyone told me to be slow to trust folks, so that's what I'm doing. For all I know their recruitment officer has a pirate alt just collecting APIs from applicant to see who to gank....


It's possible your API is collected to be used against you, although in most cases is just a bad player that's trying to use API to filter spies. I mean API can filter spies to a degree, but the spies that are a real threat know how to avoid leaving trails on API

EDIT: API however is usefull for recruitment to see a pilots SP and where the points are actually allocated. This however, has little to do with people requesting a full API, since a very limited API would accomplish this.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#10 - 2012-11-02 00:35:29 UTC
Moe Doobie wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Because of the omnipresence of spies and sabotage.



Ok....I'll be clearer about my confusion:

If I'm a spy, I'm after something, right?

I'm probably an experienced player, right?

Me being a spy AND experienced, I already know what API keys show, and what you would consider a red flag, right?

So then wouldn't you expect me to apply with a pristine toon?

How does my transaction history help you determine whether or not I'm a spy? Is this foolproof?


What situation do you think will result in more spies in your corp:

Any and all can apply with 1 minutes effort, or every spy has to go through the trouble of buying a second account and furnishing it with a believable history?
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#11 - 2012-11-02 00:36:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Silk daShocka wrote:
Moe Doobie wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Because of the omnipresence of spies and sabotage.



Ok....I'll be clearer about my confusion:

If I'm a spy, I'm after something, right?

I'm probably an experienced player, right?

Me being a spy AND experienced, I already know what API keys show, and what you would consider a red flag, right?

So then wouldn't you expect me to apply with a pristine toon?

How does my transaction history help you determine whether or not I'm a spy? Is this foolproof?


See above, regarding bad players thinking API can identify spies.

You can easily hide financial data in different ways that won't show on the API where the money is coming from.


It is straight up stupid to assume that preventative measures which force undesirables to burn time, money and effort to do something otherwise effortless are a waste of time.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#12 - 2012-11-02 00:36:48 UTC
Moe Doobie wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:
Cuz bad players still think the API will do something to prevent spys.

Really the only thing API is usefull for is to actually spy on the people giving you their API. Kind of sad that there's an abundance of corps that wont recruit unless you give them that info.



Right, I mean what's keeping them from, say, targeting me for ransoms now that they know how much money I have? That's one of the reasons I didn't show it.

When I first got here, everyone told me to be slow to trust folks, so that's what I'm doing. For all I know their recruitment officer has a pirate alt just collecting APIs from applicant to see who to gank....


Meta gaming in EVE is the biggest threat you will face to your success here.

Eventually you have no choice but to take a leap of faith. You also need to be able to ignore the puss that tends to show up in any alliance worth its salt and get out when the mold starts to over take the entity. You will know. Use your instincts.
Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-11-02 00:37:23 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Moe Doobie wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Because of the omnipresence of spies and sabotage.



Ok....I'll be clearer about my confusion:

If I'm a spy, I'm after something, right?

I'm probably an experienced player, right?

Me being a spy AND experienced, I already know what API keys show, and what you would consider a red flag, right?

So then wouldn't you expect me to apply with a pristine toon?

How does my transaction history help you determine whether or not I'm a spy? Is this foolproof?


No. It's not a matter of stupidity on the part of the spy. A pristine toon is just as suspicious, (perhaps more so to some), as any other. It does help to see what kind of transactions a person makes, but ultimately, unless they are doing something extravagant or weird, it is relatively pointless.



Soooo....toon too clean: Suspicious, can't join.

Toon has weird transactions: can't join.

Pffft.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#14 - 2012-11-02 00:39:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Depends on the corp, but for the corps running a tight ship it's actually a big deal. Spies and thieves can wreak havoc. Why take the chance? I get where they are coming from. If you have a seedy past the options do get a bit limited (I'm in the same boat). You can join a big corp or a "training/probation" corp and prove yourself, you can join a smaller up-and-coming corp and prove yourself there, then make a lat move into another corp when you are in an alliance you like, or you can touch base w/ a buddy you've flown with in the past, work for his corp until you earn a referral, and reapply. That would be how I would do it anyway... just my 2 isk.

Edit: try to put yourself into a CEO's shoes. They definitely want good new players to join. However, there are players out there that make a living stealing and spying. They play a dedicated game of trying to earn trust just to screw corps over... if you look like they do on paper, what would you expect a CEO to do? I'll tell you one almost sure-fire way to join a decent PvP corp. Fly out to their space, and just start killing them. if you kill enough of them, I'd bet they'll take you. If you just keep loosing ships, maybe that's not the corp for you anyway. Again, just my 2 isk

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#15 - 2012-11-02 00:40:36 UTC
Maybe if we knew who you were we could comment objectively. As it is I am just responding to yet another alt poster with too many whine threads.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#16 - 2012-11-02 00:42:29 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Moe Doobie wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Because of the omnipresence of spies and sabotage.



Ok....I'll be clearer about my confusion:

If I'm a spy, I'm after something, right?

I'm probably an experienced player, right?

Me being a spy AND experienced, I already know what API keys show, and what you would consider a red flag, right?

So then wouldn't you expect me to apply with a pristine toon?

How does my transaction history help you determine whether or not I'm a spy? Is this foolproof?


What situation do you think will result in more spies in your corp:

Any and all can apply with 1 minutes effort, or every spy has to go through the trouble of buying a second account and furnishing it with a believable history?


If all they need is a minute to join, you don't have to worry about spies at all.

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Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-11-02 00:43:15 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Moe Doobie wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Because of the omnipresence of spies and sabotage.



Ok....I'll be clearer about my confusion:

If I'm a spy, I'm after something, right?

I'm probably an experienced player, right?

Me being a spy AND experienced, I already know what API keys show, and what you would consider a red flag, right?

So then wouldn't you expect me to apply with a pristine toon?

How does my transaction history help you determine whether or not I'm a spy? Is this foolproof?


What situation do you think will result in more spies in your corp:

Any and all can apply with 1 minutes effort, or every spy has to go through the trouble of buying a second account and furnishing it with a believable history?



Come on man, you know spies play to WIN dude.

You really think paying 30 bucks for a 90-day toon just to build up a credible history ISN'T worth billions of isk or info that will win a huge war???

Even IF the spy has to pay it (which we both know he probably wont;, the Alliance will probably pony that up,it's 30 bucks) it's still worth it. 20 bucks for plex, or 30 bucks for a toon that could net you billions???
Alara IonStorm
#18 - 2012-11-02 00:44:02 UTC
Moe Doobie wrote:

Damn man, it just seems like EVERYTHING in this game is so friggin complicated...

It is part of the nature of trust. When you join a corp besides all the thefts you may be able to perpetrate is the fact that you can just up and shoot people.

In other games there is less trust then in EVE, a friendly GM will be along in a moment to slam anyone who steps out of line. People say you can not trust anyone in EVE but the opposite is true, EVE is nothing but trust, it is how every Corp runs and how anything big gets done.

Unfortunately the ability to be burned also means there is often a few more hopes to jump through here and there. Just a burden you will have to bare from time to time.
Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-11-02 00:45:14 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Maybe if we knew who you were we could comment objectively. As it is I am just responding to yet another alt poster with too many whine threads.


Gonna go ahead and you iggy you bro you're a troll. How do I know?

I've made 2 posts with this toon.Neither of which contained whining. Both of which simply contained honest questions from a new player. Go away. Find something to do.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#20 - 2012-11-02 00:46:34 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Maybe if we knew who you were we could comment objectively. As it is I am just responding to yet another alt poster with too many whine threads.


You'd think with the amount of time you've spent playing this game, you'd know how to recognize a spy.

I can't be 100% sure after reading just 2 posts out of 7, but I'd say that is not the case here.
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