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What happens when an alliance "wins EVE"?

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Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-11-01 23:11:40 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Why should CCP get involved when literally everybody else in EVE is too incompetent to take on a single alliance? Hypothetical scenario of course.

Comedy gold right there.

If (as he asked) one alliance were successfully able to take and establish control of all of null-sec, how would *anyone* else have a chance at them?

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Apollo-Moor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-11-01 23:14:28 UTC
I don't know if one coalition will ever own all of null-sec but I already see how they would complain about not having people to shoot..

The best part is that the only ones that really are geared up enough to shoot are all the smaller alliances. It's their own fault if they get bored from not having targets. You made the choice to join the zerg alliances and or coalition.

That was your choice to conceed to defeat and bue ball up.

If these larger alliances and coalitions are that bored.. Then man up and reset all your blue ball buddies.

Funny, I don't think any of these o'so hardcores are willing and able to do this. They're too afraid to lose their special blob of space or their EVE news articles about how they ganked this or that hauler..

I'm sure readers of these large coalitions and alliances (They know whom they be) will try and defend the position and give reasons as to why they are blue balled up so much. Nonsense about maintaing some safety for their economies or w/e..

Even the renters of these large coalitions. Who get charged fist over fist in ISK to own some -.0 system for billions a month.. LoL..

Ya'll feeling letdown and chained because ya'll allow yourselves to be..

RESET EM!.. Then let's see who really is the big bad wolf..

All you large coalitions.. Reset yourselves.. man up stop being some ecool kids all trying to walk around with the same members jacket like it's really that boss. It's lame and only kills what your really looking for in your gameplay.. Challenge..
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#23 - 2012-11-01 23:18:25 UTC
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Even though they were blue, that didn't stop some Tribal Band forces and others from downing a Goon titan for fun.

Sorry, what?
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-11-01 23:19:22 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Lugia3 wrote:
Den Arius wrote:
In the current political climate, we'd never see a single alliance take control over the the entire map, however I believe it is fully possible that a CFC+HBC mega-coalition to achieve such a feat. It wouldn't last for long though, alliances would break away from the coalition in attempt to claim power from their own and we'd back at square one.


That would be much more likely to happen. However, lets say that this mega-alliance stabilizes and doesn't fall apart. Would CCP ever intervene? Hypothetical scenario.


Why is the question "will CCP intervene"? Why aren't you asking, "will other people intervene"? Why should CCP get involved when literally everybody else in EVE is too incompetent to take on a single alliance? Hypothetical scenario of course.

because large-scale conflict is one of the major selling points of EVE

how would you expect CCP to react? "you guys are too incompetent to make our game an interesting experience, guess we'll just lay off another 20% of our workforce and hope that things look better a year down the road"

.
Hans Zwaardhandler
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#25 - 2012-11-01 23:33:22 UTC
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Even though they were blue, that didn't stop some Tribal Band forces and others from downing a Goon titan for fun.

Sorry, what?

Right when I need it, I can't find the kill report anywhere. But I think the gist of it was, THORN and Tribal Band attacked a DekCo "non-blue" Erebus or somesuch and killed it.
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#26 - 2012-11-01 23:38:10 UTC
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Even though they were blue, that didn't stop some Tribal Band forces and others from downing a Goon titan for fun.

Sorry, what?

Right when I need it, I can't find the kill report anywhere. But I think the gist of it was, THORN and Tribal Band attacked a DekCo "non-blue" Erebus or somesuch and killed it.

Yeah that never happened. Might have been another HBC alliance, but certainly was not us.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-11-01 23:49:04 UTC
Den Arius wrote:


If there was a lack of PVP, I am sure CCP would do something to stimulate PVP. This "win eve" situation would be a failure of the in game mechanics (null sec was designed for permanent conflict ). When nobody was using FW, CCP didn't just ignore that - they stimulated the stats and mechanics to encourage people to get involved. The exact same thing would happen in the scenario that the OP is describing.


When I read about EVE and null sec I read:
http://www.eveonline.com/universe/politics-warfare/
Quote:
Capsuleers and the Grand Strategy

In the inky depths of the outer regions, new powers rise and fall as alliances and coalitions of capsuleers struggle for dominion over star systems, constellations and entire regions. Politics is key to the forging of alliances and the grand coalitions that make possible the control of large swathes of the cluster by capsule pilots. Their enemies? Other capsuleer alliances waging war to control resources, invade whole regions or simply to eliminate a hated foe. Brinkmanship, espionage and statecraft all have their place in the politics of the grand strategy. Yet, in the end, war is so often the means by which the political aims of corporations and alliances are realised in the outer regions of New Eden.

I'm not seeing the "permanent conflict" part.

I only see them talking about an area of space that is governed by players.

If tomorrow, everyone in null sec decided that there would be peace in all parts of null, CCP would not do nothing.

That is a player decision.
If the "mechanics" did not allow us to do that, they would be broken, and CCP would make it so that we could make all of null sec peaceful.

Low sec, and FW, are explicity designed to foster "permanent conflict".


And high sec IS NOT at peace.
The four EMPIRES of high sec are currently at war. Low sec represents the contested systems that they are fighting over. I highly reccomend Tony Gonzalez's Emperian Age and Templar One, they give you lot of insight into what is happening in high sec and why; plus they're actually pretty good sci-fi novels if you're not to cool to read.

Null is "high sec" but the empires are run by players and not NPC factions.

It is not a requirement that we be at constant war, or that people shoot everyone they see. It is a player choice.
Just like any null sec empire that wanted to -and had the means to- could open up safe trade lanes and exploration in there space, so to could they create a peaceful null sec. (I'm assuming that stations can be set to allow nuetrals to buy and sell in them)

In theory of course.


As I've said, the guys that run null understand people want to pvp or they get bored; so they do things to ensure that there is pvp when things are more peaceful. It's called diplomacy, and some groups understand how to use it.

If the CFC, TEST, and HBC owned all of null, we would just set it up so that we can fly around and shoot each other. We just wouldn't take each other space.



You guys expect us to act like bloodthirsty savages, and then ***** that we act like bloodthirsty savages; WTF?

Oh wait, lol, I just got it, wtf.
You guys start these conversations because you think if CCP forces us to constantly shoot each other we wouldn't be shooting you guys in high sec. Der!
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#28 - 2012-11-01 23:55:54 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

You guys start these conversations because you think if CCP forces us to constantly shoot each other we wouldn't be shooting you guys in high sec. Der!

Just going to leave this here for all those who are too lazy to read your entire post.
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#29 - 2012-11-01 23:58:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Saki
Lugia3 wrote:
What happens when an alliance "wins EVE"?


^_^

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-11-01 23:59:48 UTC
youre always going to have the groups that dont hold sov but pvp in null/ls so it wouldnt really matter.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-11-02 00:00:32 UTC
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
There will never be one entire entity made up of blues; we've already seen that the HBC and CFC do not get along, even though TEST and the Goons are allied with one another. Even though they were blue, that didn't stop some Tribal Band forces and others from downing a Goon titan for fun. Solar's coalition as well was rather fractured, as Solar was blue with Gypsy Band, ED, and others, but Gypsy has fractured away and started shooting more at Solar, and continuing their aggression against their pets.

So essentially, you can't win Eve; human nature will just tear it all apart.

While I agree with the thought behind your post I think you are looking at the wrong alliances.

I think the most likely source of destabilization are the smaller CFC alliances - they have enough of a history to develop ambitions of their own and grudges against GSF as well as against each other (both in contrast to the very young HBC).

Remember that campaign when your alliance had great participation but only got a pat on the back and some additional sov bills to pay while most of the tech was assigned to your slacking neighbor?
Of course you did attempt to speak up and were told that your contributions would be remembered and that the alliance next door would be held to a higher standard now that they got these moons... and of course you went on like the good soldier you are, explained the situation to your own membership as best as you could and only cried a little inside when, a few months down the road, everyone seemed to have forgotten the promises they had made to you.

.... that's the stuff wars are made of.

Send in the CD smooth-talkers to defuse the situation and you'll just make everything worse as your good soldier knows from experience that he cannot win an argument against them. So he just becomes bitter and silent.


Eventually some of these CFC alliances will want to go a different way.

Maybe by then there will be a South-Eastern coalition they can join - but maybe there won't. Maybe there will be only one other major coalition they could find a new home in.

At that point we're deep into fanfiction territory but the only somewhat plausible casus belli for an actual war between GSF and HBC I could come up with would be if the HBC started to poach CFC members.

.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-11-02 00:09:27 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Why should CCP get involved when literally everybody else in EVE is too incompetent to take on a single alliance? Hypothetical scenario of course.

Comedy gold right there.

If (as he asked) one alliance were successfully able to take and establish control of all of null-sec, how would *anyone* else have a chance at them?


Goonswarm was built upon the idea that if you put enough bodies in cheep hulls into a system you can kill even the most powerful fleet. If the players of highsec had any balls worth talking about they could literally stand up and crush us within a few weeks.

Right now supercaps are relegated to Sov grinding and don't have near the force that they used to on the battlefield.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-11-02 00:14:14 UTC
Quote:
What happens when an alliance "wins EVE"?



They get cake.

brb
Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#34 - 2012-11-02 00:17:38 UTC
Lugia3 wrote:
So, eventually if EVE was left alone long enough one alliance would someday take all of nullsec, in theory anyway. What would CCP do in the event that an alliance takes all of null and stabilizes as one massive blob of blues?

Nothing. CCP would do nothing. Directly.

They may however actually take another look at null and realize they have totally missed the boat on how to drive conflict. They may realize that the CSM, whispering myopic advice in their ear, doesn't actually know how to drive conflict in null either, despite their fat killboards and strategic acumen (there's a difference between knowing how to defeat your enemy in broad strategic terms and actually understanding why everyone is there to fight). If that happens, CCP might rethink the whole layout of the game. ...and then things will get interesting.

I don't know if the goons can blue out null... but I hope they can.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#35 - 2012-11-02 00:19:48 UTC
If an Alliance managed to become strong enough (and thus it must be large enough member wise) to control all of null sec, it would split apart from within long before it could succeed in such a venture.

And if such did succeed, the universe would implode.


Also... controlling all of null would not be winning EVE. You can't win something that does not have a defined end.
Alternatively, I have already won EVE because I completed my long term goal of having fun and enjoying the company of an entertaining corp.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#36 - 2012-11-02 00:21:23 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Why should CCP get involved when literally everybody else in EVE is too incompetent to take on a single alliance? Hypothetical scenario of course.

Comedy gold right there.

If (as he asked) one alliance were successfully able to take and establish control of all of null-sec, how would *anyone* else have a chance at them?


Goonswarm was built upon the idea that if you put enough bodies in cheep hulls into a system you can kill even the most powerful fleet. If the players of highsec had any balls worth talking about they could literally stand up and crush us within a few weeks.

Right now supercaps are relegated to Sov grinding and don't have near the force that they used to on the battlefield.

Agreed. A fleet of noobships of all of high sec would blot out the suns of null (and pummel any fleet they encounter)... if the grid would ever load.Lol
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-11-02 00:24:25 UTC
E-peen value would suffer it's worst inflation ever. That's what would happen. Probably.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#38 - 2012-11-02 00:30:35 UTC
Nestor II wrote:
I think that happened in the Chinese server for EVE.


Pretty much. The server very seldom sees large scale PvP. Plex go for around 2 billion each and inflation is through the roof.

Serenity is what happens when you have too much social fiber in a conflict MMO. We have what happens when there is too little.
usrevenge
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-11-02 02:20:17 UTC
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Even though they were blue, that didn't stop some Tribal Band forces and others from downing a Goon titan for fun.

Sorry, what?


Tribe wtf why didn't you let me in on this titan killmail, thought we were friends.
Thead Enco
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-11-02 02:22:44 UTC
Lugia3 wrote:
So, eventually if EVE was left alone long enough one alliance would someday take all of nullsec, in theory anyway. What would CCP do in the event that an alliance takes all of null and stabilizes as one massive blob of blues?


The Jovians invade and carpet bomb everyone! Shock & Awe style