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Carebear Entitlement: The Decadence of the Modern Era

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NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#241 - 2012-11-01 21:06:46 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I was arguing for a two-tier system - one for PvP and one for non-PvPers. Another alternative I had is players who don't want to PvP check a box on the launcher and it logs them into the test server.


I think we already have this two-tier system... It is called high sec and low/null sec.
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#242 - 2012-11-01 21:07:20 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
t still leaves the live server without real solutions to contesting resources in highsec.


If only the Systems of Empire, with it's wealth, trade, and industrial capacity was conquerable. What a beautiful chaos of greed, and lust that would be.

Instead of starting coddled and milk fed from the teat of NPC corporations, newbies would begin at the edges of the galaxy scrabbling, clawing, and biting for scraps; all the while their attention and avarice drawing them to the halcyon eliessium of the galactic core. With the promise that nurturing enough cunning, guile, and ruthlessness would enable them to carve their own fortune and empire from it's beating heart.

...

That, or you could give us something meaningful to do with all our space in Nullsec so it's worth the pain, tears, and organization to take and defend it. While at the same time not giving yet more protection to botters and carebears who want to devalue everything we hold by pressing a button and watching Netflix.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#243 - 2012-11-01 21:07:27 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
Because CCP created high sec to give them a way to play this game the way to play this game in a non-PVP centric way... altering EVE from a PVP-centric game into more of a sandbox where you can play it PVP-centric or not, depending on what EVE is about to you.
Just one problem: the presence of highsec does in no way alter the PvP-centrism of EVE. EVE is a sandbox because it's PvP-centric, not in spite of or in addition to being so.

Highsec offers just as much PvP as other parts of space, possible even more depending on how you choose to interpret those oft-quoted numbers about character distribution.

If highsec was a no-PvP zone, it would have the following restrictions:

· You'd obviously no longer be able to lock any player ship.
· You'd no longer be able to activate any kind of AoE weaponry or module.
· You'd no longer be able to use the market, contracts or the trading window.
· You'd no longer be able to access or manage POSes and their services.
· You'd no longer be able to mine.
· You'd no longer be able to shoot rats.
· You'd no longer be able to open any kind of container in space.
· You'd no longer be able to use the on-board scanner or scan probes.
· You'd no longer be able to use salvagers.
· You'd no longer have access the industry interface.
· You'd no longer be have access to any free-floating permanent sites in space.

…and probably a few more that I overlooked.
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#244 - 2012-11-01 21:08:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Dar Manic
Quote:
Guys with no interest in PVP, getting shot too much in EVE, will quit playing EVE. CCP does not want carebears quitting EVE. If you understand that CCP wants more players not less, then you simply do not understand what EVE is about.
EVE is a game where all players compete against one another in a player-driven economy, whether it's over resources or territory. That is a form of PvP and effects all other players, PvPers and PvErs. If you wish to be exempt from being shot, it follows that you should be exempt from all forms of PvP to prevent people using alts to abuse such a system. In that spirit, I suggest all ore and commodities acquired by non-PvPers can only be used to make items that cannot be used in-game (except for non-PvPer exclusive weapons and ammo) and that they do not generate ISK for ratting but instead some other, completely seperate currency that can't be used to purchase any items useable in game. Anything else and they are PvPing, whether they realize it or not.



Fail logic is fail... you might just need to logoff. You have so totally gone off the deep-end you probably don't even know which way is up.

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#245 - 2012-11-01 21:10:10 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
To me it seems this would lead to an overall rather stale environment much like the one people lament in low/null now when looking for targets.


This has not come about in the almost ten years this game has been in existence. Why must we change anything mechanically in order to prevent it?
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#246 - 2012-11-01 21:11:56 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
To me it seems this would lead to an overall rather stale environment much like the one people lament in low/null now when looking for targets.


This has not come about in the almost ten years this game has been in existence. Why must we change anything mechanically in order to prevent it?


There you go... it's not the problem some are very loudly saying it is. Too many people are starting off with an incoherent basic premise and morphing it into complete failure.

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#247 - 2012-11-01 21:12:50 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I was arguing for a two-tier system - one for PvP and one for non-PvPers. Another alternative I had is players who don't want to PvP check a box on the launcher and it logs them into the test server.


I think we already have this two-tier system... It is called high sec and low/null sec.


If they trammelize hisec any further they might as well just go all-out themepark.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#248 - 2012-11-01 21:12:51 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

If they have no interest in pvp, why did they pick a pvp-centric game? Why not pick a friendlier, less harsh pve-centric game like Star Trek Online (now that it exists)?

This is a good question.

I personally picked Eve because I could watch what OTHER people did. I saw the clips, the antics. I knew for fact that there was no way I could be part of that, not for a long time. It was too big, too glorious.

In the interim, I enjoyed the gfx, the playstyle, the options, the lack of rules, the anarchy, the convos, the people - PvP was a PART of Eve.

And tbph, I wasn't interested in being PART of all that (although I did) - I just wanted to be IN it...

Sorta, I AM there......

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#249 - 2012-11-01 21:15:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Ginger Barbarella wrote:

This entire thread is just oozing stupid.

Look, for all the whining about high-sec that happens here DAILY, nobody has really bothered to TAKE a system. Do the same thing that's done in null: claim a stake, and take it. In this case, wardec everyone that comes around, kill everyone and everything that moves (even if you have to gank to get it done), protect your miners (since so many of you think high sec mining is soo easy for so much massive reward), and be done with it. You got soldiers to join your troups (all the uber-elite gankers), you have industrialists to join (all the carebear POS guys), and you have the fleas in the mix (like Jimmie what's-his-name).

Do it, or STFU. Problem solved.

But then, this thread isn't about solving the "problem", is it? Blink

In null they usually respond by blowing people up who violate their claim to an area of space. Doing this in highsec is not recommended as it is more likely to result in massive losses isk wise, loss of ability to even enter the system due to sec status penalties from ganking or costly wars assuming you aren't up against NPC corp characters.

There is simply no beneficial way to stake claim in highsec. In order to be worthwhile it would need to allow more profit than simply doing the same thing without a claim. And without benefit it's not worth considering.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#250 - 2012-11-01 21:16:00 UTC
"please make our cold and harsh universe warm and cuddly for carebears"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#251 - 2012-11-01 21:17:23 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Look, for all the whining about high-sec that happens here DAILY, nobody has really bothered to TAKE a system. Do the same thing that's done in null: claim a stake, and take it. In this case, wardec everyone that comes around, kill everyone and everything that moves (even if you have to gank to get it done),



You can't wardec NPC corps.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2012-11-01 21:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
NARDAC wrote:
I think we already have this two-tier system... It is called high sec and low/null sec.

Samahiel Sotken wrote:
This has not come about in the almost ten years this game has been in existence. Why must we change anything mechanically in order to prevent it?

That wasn't a statement from me. I just failed on placing the quote tags. See below for proper quote chain.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
And rightly so, but as such, considering that many of the acts being questioned aren't being done because of their strategic value but because they can be of simply for enjoyment, the statement of the fact that there is meaningful PvP doesn't form an adequate defense for creating a free for all system.
I was arguing for a two-tier system - one for PvP and one for non-PvPers. Another alternative I had is players who don't want to PvP check a box on the launcher and it logs them into the test server.

How does this provide any solution to the issue mentioned above? It still leaves the live server without real solutions to contesting resources in highsec.
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#253 - 2012-11-01 21:20:45 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:

This entire thread is just oozing stupid.

Look, for all the whining about high-sec that happens here DAILY, nobody has really bothered to TAKE a system. Do the same thing that's done in null: claim a stake, and take it. In this case, wardec everyone that comes around, kill everyone and everything that moves (even if you have to gank to get it done), protect your miners (since so many of you think high sec mining is soo easy for so much massive reward), and be done with it. You got soldiers to join your troups (all the uber-elite gankers), you have industrialists to join (all the carebear POS guys), and you have the fleas in the mix (like Jimmie what's-his-name).

Do it, or STFU. Problem solved.

But then, this thread isn't about solving the "problem", is it? Blink

In null they usually respond by blowing people up who violate their claim to an area of space. Doing this in highsec is not recommended as it is more likely to result in massive losses isk wise, loss of ability to even enter the system due to sec status penalties from ganking or costly wars assuming you aren't up against NPC corp characters.

There is simply no beneficial way to stake claim in highsec. In order to be worthwhile it would need to allow more profit than simply doing the same thing without a claim. And without benefit it's not worth considering.


Why do you HAVE to be able to claim stake? That's the problem with the argument. There's no problem in hi-sec regarding this.

You want to make hi-sec like null-sec. That's the problem. Do you not understand not everyone is about their e-peen? Some people, gasps, just want to play and have fun!!

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#254 - 2012-11-01 21:22:53 UTC
Dar Manic wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:

This entire thread is just oozing stupid.

Look, for all the whining about high-sec that happens here DAILY, nobody has really bothered to TAKE a system. Do the same thing that's done in null: claim a stake, and take it. In this case, wardec everyone that comes around, kill everyone and everything that moves (even if you have to gank to get it done), protect your miners (since so many of you think high sec mining is soo easy for so much massive reward), and be done with it. You got soldiers to join your troups (all the uber-elite gankers), you have industrialists to join (all the carebear POS guys), and you have the fleas in the mix (like Jimmie what's-his-name).

Do it, or STFU. Problem solved.

But then, this thread isn't about solving the "problem", is it? Blink

In null they usually respond by blowing people up who violate their claim to an area of space. Doing this in highsec is not recommended as it is more likely to result in massive losses isk wise, loss of ability to even enter the system due to sec status penalties from ganking or costly wars assuming you aren't up against NPC corp characters.

There is simply no beneficial way to stake claim in highsec. In order to be worthwhile it would need to allow more profit than simply doing the same thing without a claim. And without benefit it's not worth considering.


Why do you HAVE to be able to claim stake? That's the problem with the argument. There's no problem in hi-sec regarding this.

You want to make hi-sec like null-sec. That's the problem. Do you not understand not everyone is about their e-peen? Some people, gasps, just want to play and have fun!!

You would have to ask Ginger Barbarella. she is the one who presented it as a valid course of action. I'm just pointing out why it isn't feasible. that said there does appear to be a lack of meaningful and purposeful conflict over highsec resources.
Ginger Barbarella
#255 - 2012-11-01 21:25:25 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Look, for all the whining about high-sec that happens here DAILY, nobody has really bothered to TAKE a system. Do the same thing that's done in null: claim a stake, and take it. In this case, wardec everyone that comes around, kill everyone and everything that moves (even if you have to gank to get it done),



You can't wardec NPC corps.


Then you kill them or grief them within game rules. I thought I said that??? Everybody is just oozing praise on Jimmy what's-his-name for his "playstyle", so use it. Plenty of miners are in corps; plenty more are in NPC corps. The only difference is one small mechanic.

But I have a feeling this is coming back around to "easy" for the anti-miners/gankers. You guys want it just as easy as the miners supposedly want it.

Who's looking back at whom in the mirror? Twisted

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#256 - 2012-11-01 21:25:55 UTC
Andski wrote:
"please make our cold and harsh universe warm and cuddly for carebears"



I think that what most people miss is that the universe is both cold and harsh (low/null) and cuddly (high).


Who has the greater sense of entitlement? Those that want to keep this two tier universe, as claimed by the OP who says it is the high sec carebears that are the ones with the sense of entitlement.... or is it the people like the OP that seem to have a sense of entitlement that the two tier universe be eliminated and change it all into low/null sec shoot-em-up, free-for-all
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#257 - 2012-11-01 21:25:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Is this thread still going on?

I don't understand why anyone listens to the opinion of a group of people who think elite PvP is bumping miners.

Just ignore them, they'll go away eventually. If they don't, I might have to rally the troops myself. Not because I like mining, I don't, but because this is one of the most ret*rded movements in the history of Eve and needs to be stomped out.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#258 - 2012-11-01 21:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
To me it seems this would lead to an overall rather stale environment much like the one people lament in low/null now when looking for targets.

This has not come about in the almost ten years this game has been in existence. Why must we change anything mechanically in order to prevent it?

I'd say that due to CCP intervention we haven't seen the worse that can become of any course of action or lack thereof. The proof is that mechanics have changed quite a bit over that same decade. That defense would be more relevant if we still had 2003 eve in 2012.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#259 - 2012-11-01 21:28:23 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Is this thread still going on?

I don't understand why anyone listens to the opinion of a group of people who think elite PvP is bumping miners.

Just ignore them, they'll go away eventually. If they don't, I might have to rally the troops myself. Not because I like mining, I don't, but because this is one of the most ret*rded movements in the history of Eve and needs to be stomped out.

How is bumping not PvP? Or is resource denial only included in PvP at the convenience of your arguments?
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#260 - 2012-11-01 21:30:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Is this thread still going on?

I don't understand why anyone listens to the opinion of a group of people who think elite PvP is bumping miners.

Just ignore them, they'll go away eventually. If they don't, I might have to rally the troops myself. Not because I like mining, I don't, but because this is one of the most ret*rded movements in the history of Eve and needs to be stomped out.

How is bumping not PvP? Or is resource denial only included in PvP at the convenience of your arguments?


I didn't say it wasn't. Mining is PvP too you know. (You see what I did there?)

Edit: Also, you can't just claim I said something and then use the imaginary thing you think I said to make a witty argument. Because it just shows you people to be as ret*rded as you already look.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf