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Freighters too easy to gank.
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Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-11-01 15:18:34 UTC
Freighters could use some love in terms of EHP. I think they are currently too easy to gank in hisec. I saw killmail yesterday where freighter was suicide ganked by 5 talos. A freighter with only 4bils worth stuff inside. I could fly freighter but i dont see reason to buy one just to get ganged in high sec with only few bils in cargo. I rather fly 2 mammoths with 2 chars and safe 1,4billion in hull.. I think gankers should bring atleast asmuch isk on field that freighter hull costs. So 15 talos would be needed to suicide gank freighter instead of just 5.

Freighter costs more than carrier hull and yet it can be suicide ganked in high sec with just few battlecruisers thats just wrong imho. Sure theres solution "dont buy one" but thats just stupid...
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-11-01 15:42:41 UTC
Better solution, fly with an escort fleet and dont get ganked at all.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-11-01 15:47:21 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Better solution, fly with an escort fleet and dont get ganked at all.

Confirming that "escort" will actually do anything.

The real solution is don't have more than 4 bill in the cargo.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#4 - 2012-11-01 16:09:39 UTC
Keko Khaan wrote:
I think gankers should bring atleast asmuch isk on field that freighter hull costs.
Fortunately, cost is not a balancing factor, and would be completely impossible to maintain in a player-driven market even if it was.

So no. Getting a freighter kill with just 5 Taloi requires a hefty investment and still means risking it all for nothing.
Marsan
#5 - 2012-11-01 16:11:09 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Better solution, fly with an escort fleet and dont get ganked at all.

What exactly will the escort fleet do in HS? A better solution is to make the ganked freighters wreck owned by the freighter pilot's fleet/corp then with the next release looting the wreck gets the gankers friends the criminal flag, but at least your fleet/corp mates are free to rescue some your cargo and/or gank the looters. It makes more sense in game than how it works now.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#6 - 2012-11-01 16:39:20 UTC
Marsan wrote:
What exactly will the escort fleet do in HS?
In a situation such as the on in the OP, rep the freighter. They can also jam the attackers. Shoot the attackers. Web-warp the freighter. Provide fleet bonuses. Scout for ganks and pick a different route.

Quote:
A better solution is to make the ganked freighters wreck owned by the freighter pilot's fleet/corp
Good news: this is already the case.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#7 - 2012-11-01 16:50:41 UTC

Straight up giving freighters an EHP boost.... HELL NO....

Giving freighters fitting options... that's far more reasonable, but the fittings need to be balanced around:
1.) Max Hauling fits should still be less than 1m m3. That means, if you give it 8 low slots and 3 rig slots, it's Base cargo bay (after skills) should be around 85,000 m3....

2.) It should probably have it's base HP stats reduced some, and then people can use modules to increase the tank on it..

3.) Do NOT give them a highslot.... they can't target anything, so that leaves futile smartbombs, cyno's, or cloaks... and the last thing we need is cloaking freighters!
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-11-01 17:40:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Marsan wrote:
What exactly will the escort fleet do in HS?
In a situation such as the on in the OP, rep the freighter. They can also jam the attackers. Shoot the attackers. Web-warp the freighter. Provide fleet bonuses. Scout for ganks and pick a different route.

Quote:
A better solution is to make the ganked freighters wreck owned by the freighter pilot's fleet/corp
Good news: this is already the case.


Well i think having an escort for every random low value transport in hisec is too much to ask when problem is that freighters are too easy to suicide gank. You really think having corp escort to ooc alt for personal agenda is real option? Specially for the guy whos corp might live like 50 jumps away in null. Scouting and webbing on other hand can be done solo with alt (webbing ooc alt is not an option tho).

Anyways it is still highsec and should offer even little safety. Im not saying that they should remove suicide ganking i just think its too easy to suicide gank big ship in highsec that is technically capital class ship.

Also i didnt meant ganker fleet to be tied in freighter cost. But what i was trying to say is that freighters are too easy to suicide gank in hisec with kinda cheap suicide fleet. So i came up with rough example of 15 talos = freighter gank. Which would sound much more reasonable and it would be easy to do by either giving more EHP for freighters or fitting options like DCU.

Actually while thinking about it fitting option sounds kinda interesting as it would also give ability to modify your freighter for example with nanos for faster aling making it actually easier to gank.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#9 - 2012-11-01 17:59:03 UTC
Keko Khaan wrote:
Well i think having an escort for every random low value transport in hisec is too much to ask when problem is that freighters are too easy to suicide gank.
As luck would have it, you don't need to have an escort for those, because they will be to worthless to attack. So you only need to protect the higher-value ones (which can be best protected by turning them into lower-value transports).

Quote:
Anyways it is still highsec and should offer even little safety.
And that is exactly what it does. The rest is up to you, however, and unsafe behaviour has a tendency to get you into dangerous situations.

Quote:
Also i didnt meant ganker fleet to be tied in freighter cost. But what i was trying to say is that freighters are too easy to suicide gank in hisec with kinda cheap suicide fleet.
Five Taloi kitted out to where they can take down a freighter in the time requried is not “kind of cheap”, especially since you are already skating the edge of having a plausible chance of success.

Freighters are already some of the most hardened ships you can get in highsec. What gets them killed is not their lack of HP — it's the unsafe behaviour and even downright stupidity of their pilots. Giving them more HP will not solve this problem and will only create a power creep that is bad for the game. It's the wrong solution for a problem that doesn't really exist anyway.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#10 - 2012-11-01 18:05:20 UTC
Marsan wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Better solution, fly with an escort fleet and dont get ganked at all.

What exactly will the escort fleet do in HS? A better solution is to make the ganked freighters wreck owned by the freighter pilot's fleet/corp then with the next release looting the wreck gets the gankers friends the criminal flag, but at least your fleet/corp mates are free to rescue some your cargo and/or gank the looters. It makes more sense in game than how it works now.

Several things:

Scout. Tell the frighter pilot to not jump into a gank fleet.
Rep. Many ganks do not have much margin, they just barely get the job done. Some repping can make the gank fail
Boost. A fleet boost, especially if there are gang links, can boost your EHP. Two freighters in a fleet can both get a boost even if they are the only two ships in the fleet.
Jam. Once the gankers go flashy red, you can jam them without CONCORD consequences to yourself.

On the flip side, the only thing I can think of that's more boring than flying a freighter 50 jumps is watching someone else flying a freighter 50 jumps. How many people out there think escorting freighters is enjoyable game-play?

Anyone?

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Luc Chastot
#11 - 2012-11-01 18:45:39 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Marsan wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Better solution, fly with an escort fleet and dont get ganked at all.

What exactly will the escort fleet do in HS? A better solution is to make the ganked freighters wreck owned by the freighter pilot's fleet/corp then with the next release looting the wreck gets the gankers friends the criminal flag, but at least your fleet/corp mates are free to rescue some your cargo and/or gank the looters. It makes more sense in game than how it works now.

Several things:

Scout. Tell the frighter pilot to not jump into a gank fleet.
Rep. Many ganks do not have much margin, they just barely get the job done. Some repping can make the gank fail
Boost. A fleet boost, especially if there are gang links, can boost your EHP. Two freighters in a fleet can both get a boost even if they are the only two ships in the fleet.
Jam. Once the gankers go flashy red, you can jam them without CONCORD consequences to yourself.

On the flip side, the only thing I can think of that's more boring than flying a freighter 50 jumps is watching someone else flying a freighter 50 jumps. How many people out there think escorting freighters is enjoyable game-play?

Anyone?


Promise of good payment? I don't know.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

JP Nakamura
Union of Intergalactic Miners and Nano Assemblers
#12 - 2012-11-01 18:52:48 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Marsan wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Better solution, fly with an escort fleet and dont get ganked at all.

What exactly will the escort fleet do in HS? A better solution is to make the ganked freighters wreck owned by the freighter pilot's fleet/corp then with the next release looting the wreck gets the gankers friends the criminal flag, but at least your fleet/corp mates are free to rescue some your cargo and/or gank the looters. It makes more sense in game than how it works now.

Several things:

Scout. Tell the frighter pilot to not jump into a gank fleet.
Rep. Many ganks do not have much margin, they just barely get the job done. Some repping can make the gank fail
Boost. A fleet boost, especially if there are gang links, can boost your EHP. Two freighters in a fleet can both get a boost even if they are the only two ships in the fleet.
Jam. Once the gankers go flashy red, you can jam them without CONCORD consequences to yourself.

On the flip side, the only thing I can think of that's more boring than flying a freighter 50 jumps is watching someone else flying a freighter 50 jumps. How many people out there think escorting freighters is enjoyable game-play?

Anyone?


The only thing more boring than flying/watching a freighter make 50 jumps, is mining in an Industrial.

CCP: 10+ years of Harvesting players Tears  (latest efforts being Source Limited Edition, and Alliance Logo Revised Policies)
Nar Zandev
Epidemic Inc.
#13 - 2012-11-18 11:19:19 UTC
Tippia wrote:
As luck would have it, you don't need to have an escort for those, because they will be to worthless to attack. So you only need to protect the higher-value ones (which can be best protected by turning them into lower-value transports).



Mkey, will just leave these link over here...
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17641147

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17644123

only a couple of examples... Pls tell me, do you feel the foul, fecaloid like taste in your mouth as you speak? No? mkey, keep rambling then.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2012-11-18 12:26:17 UTC
Nar Zandev wrote:
Tippia wrote:
As luck would have it, you don't need to have an escort for those, because they will be to worthless to attack. So you only need to protect the higher-value ones (which can be best protected by turning them into lower-value transports).



Mkey, will just leave these link over here...
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17641147

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17644123

only a couple of examples... Pls tell me, do you feel the foul, fecaloid like taste in your mouth as you speak? No? mkey, keep rambling then.



Tell us again how gambling on the contents of multiple courier contracts is exactly the same as ganking a freighter with a pittance in the hold
Ch3244
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-11-18 13:12:27 UTC
Nar Zandev wrote:
Tippia wrote:
As luck would have it, you don't need to have an escort for those, because they will be to worthless to attack. So you only need to protect the higher-value ones (which can be best protected by turning them into lower-value transports).



Mkey, will just leave these link over here...
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17641147

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17644123

only a couple of examples... Pls tell me, do you feel the foul, fecaloid like taste in your mouth as you speak? No? mkey, keep rambling then.

why would i feel bad when im on those kills?

lol
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#16 - 2012-11-18 14:47:24 UTC
Keko Khaan wrote:
I think gankers should bring atleast asmuch isk on field that freighter hull costs

Does that mean that cheap-ass fleets of like several BCs and Blackbirds should not be able to kill a Marauder? Or you're one of those people who think game rules should exist for their exclusive benefit?

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#17 - 2012-11-18 16:15:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Nar Zandev wrote:
Mkey, will just leave these link over here...
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17641147

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17644123
Like I said: the best way to protect a high-value transport is to turn it into a low-value transport. Signalling to everyone within 5 jumps that you're carrying something valuable is kind of the opposite of that.

You'll also notice that the attackers lost upwards on a billion each on those ganks.

Quote:
Pls tell me, do you feel the foul, fecaloid like taste in your mouth as you speak?
No, I have a strict policy not to french-kiss people like you so I never have that problem.