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Carebear Entitlement: The Decadence of the Modern Era

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#161 - 2012-11-01 14:15:52 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
If I am, then you're asking an irrelevant question, aren't you?
No. I'm merely weeding out meaningless noise and other nonsense from the debate.

You might have been asking about pancakes, but then it would have been much more readily apparent that it didn't belong. Instead, you are asking questions that are seemingly related to the topic, but which may be as relevant to the actual situation as said pancakes, and it's worth-while to make that distinction (or similarity) clear.


Indeed. That Jenna character, whose posts I've blocked for the fact that she fell foul of the fallacy that just because I'm new to MMOs "explains" something without considering the fact that I'm an extremely fast learner, told me back on page five or six of this thread that miners are harassed because they log on. So it is, indeed, relevant, and not a strawman.

From page six of this thread, I think:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
So I'll ask again, because this is a question you seem to have avoided, Some Rando.

What is it that miners do to you that fills you with such a need to harass them?


They log in.




LOL hubris

I win.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#162 - 2012-11-01 14:16:18 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Indeed. That Jenna character, whose posts I've blocked for the fact that she fell foul of the fallacy that just because I'm new to MMOs "explains" something without considering the fact that I'm an extremely fast learner, told me back on page five or six of this thread that miners are harassed because they log on. So it is, indeed, relevant, and not a strawman.
But that's not because of how the play the game. It's that the play the game that makes them targets, and it has nothing to do with their being miners. It applies to everyone.

If you log in, you are a target. If you are a target, you will be harassed. Therefore, [ miners | mission-runners | traders | gankers | builders | spammers | scammers | explorers | can artists | null grunts | FWers | etc ] are harassed.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2012-11-01 14:18:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Tippia wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Indeed. That Jenna character, whose posts I've blocked for the fact that she fell foul of the fallacy that just because I'm new to MMOs "explains" something without considering the fact that I'm an extremely fast learner, told me back on page five or six of this thread that miners are harassed because they log on. So it is, indeed, relevant, and not a strawman.
But that's not because of how the play the game. It's that the play the game that makes them targets, and it has nothing to do with their being miners. It applies to everyone.

If you log in, you are a target. If you are a target, you will be harassed. Therefore, [ miners | mission-runners | traders | gankers | builders | spammers | scammers | explorers | can artists | null grunts | FWers | etc ] are harassed.


I agree with this in it's entirety. Thank you for some clarification on that point - yes, when you log in, you are fair game. I should provide some myself, and that is I don't support harassment "in general", but that doesn't exclude gankers and bumpers from going about their day, I just wouldn't like to think that they're focusing their attacks on certain individuals, because THAT would be harassment. "BASHING" is what we call it on Ogame (if you've ever played that).

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#164 - 2012-11-01 14:19:02 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
If I am, then you're asking an irrelevant question, aren't you?
No. I'm merely weeding out meaningless noise and other nonsense from the debate.

You might have been asking about pancakes, but then it would have been much more readily apparent that it didn't belong. Instead, you are asking questions that are seemingly related to the topic, but which may be as relevant to the actual situation as said pancakes, and it's worth-while to make that distinction (or similarity) clear.


But Pancakes aren't my foodstyle, despite the fact that I walked into a Pancake house. I demand cheeseburgers because I paid my money, regardless of what the business actually sells!

Couldn't help it at all..
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#165 - 2012-11-01 14:22:03 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Indeed. That Jenna character, whose posts I've blocked for the fact that she fell foul of the fallacy that just because I'm new to MMOs "explains" something without considering the fact that I'm an extremely fast learner, told me back on page five or six of this thread that miners are harassed because they log on. So it is, indeed, relevant, and not a strawman.
But that's not because of how the play the game. It's that the play the game that makes them targets, and it has nothing to do with their being miners. It applies to everyone.

If you log in, you are a target. If you are a target, you will be harassed. Therefore, [ miners | mission-runners | traders | gankers | builders | spammers | scammers | explorers | can artists | null grunts | FWers | etc ] are harassed.


I agree with this in it's entirety. Thank you for some clarification on that point - yes, when you log in, you are fair game.


Your surrender is accepted, and we will petition CCP to rename your Character "the French Third Republic".

(*runs away before the French players see this post*)
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#166 - 2012-11-01 14:25:18 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Indeed. That Jenna character, whose posts I've blocked for the fact that she fell foul of the fallacy that just because I'm new to MMOs "explains" something without considering the fact that I'm an extremely fast learner, told me back on page five or six of this thread that miners are harassed because they log on. So it is, indeed, relevant, and not a strawman.
But that's not because of how the play the game. It's that the play the game that makes them targets, and it has nothing to do with their being miners. It applies to everyone.

If you log in, you are a target. If you are a target, you will be harassed. Therefore, [ miners | mission-runners | traders | gankers | builders | spammers | scammers | explorers | can artists | null grunts | FWers | etc ] are harassed.


I agree with this in it's entirety. Thank you for some clarification on that point - yes, when you log in, you are fair game.


Your surrender is accepted, and we will petition CCP to rename your Character "the French Third Republic".

(*runs away before the French players see this post*)


Deferring to a reasonable argument is not surrendering. I stand by my position, but I have new information with which I can refine it. I'm an academic, first and foremost, before I am a journalist or a gamer or anything else. I respond to solid arguments brought forward and argued with articulation and merit. If you want to convince me of something, then you need to do it without pejoratives, sarcasm, or short simple answers with no real clarity like "they log in".

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#167 - 2012-11-01 14:25:51 UTC
All this thread is missing is someone screaming he's the head of a big accountant firm, entitled to having his shirts be worth a trillion ISK each.

If anyone wonders why 'journalists' are now held in the same respect as lawyers, this, this is why.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#168 - 2012-11-01 14:30:17 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
All this thread is missing is someone screaming he's the head of a big accountant firm, entitled to having his shirts be worth a trillion ISK each.

If anyone wonders why 'journalists' are now held in the same respect as lawyers, this, this is why.


What level of respect people have for my profession is merely a subjective opinion. I don't get paid very much. I don't do it for the money. I wonder how many of you realise that the much vaunted Julian Assange is a journalist? How many of you put that man, and rightfully so, on the pedestal he deserves? Journalists don't win Pulitzers for nothing - but that's not to say that journalism has not got it's dark side. So I can understand this subjective opinion, but before you jump to conclusions about the respectability of a profession, you might want to first note the fact that without journalism, even dodgy journalism, there is a lot of stuff about the world that you just wouldn't know, and the government would be free to hide it from us at will.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2012-11-01 14:33:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Some Rando
This thread is now about how journalists get no respect.

E: also, just like to say, the almond milk my wife bought looks like runny snot. I blame myself for not insisting on the good brand.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#170 - 2012-11-01 14:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Some Rando wrote:
This thread is now about how journalists get no respect.


Seriously, you should see the hate mail I get sometimes from my science column - as soon as I write something about vaccines or global warming, the science deniers come out frothing at the mouth in full force. P

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Liaria Cullen
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#171 - 2012-11-01 14:36:52 UTC
Kagasumi wrote:
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Stuff .



You are railing against carebears existing, is the real point you are trying to make. Sorry, but this game is for all types or players. Some go to null sec, and others don't. If you are getting bored down there, you have it within your own power to do something about it. Don't expect someone else's game to be altered to satisfy your own playstyle.

Right back at you, Things like that work two ways. You could argue that eve has been the way it is for almost ten years, and has survived this way for that long. now hisec dwelers are trying to have mining ships that you cant bump, or kill or do anything to interfere with. That's changing the game to satisfy their own play style.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#172 - 2012-11-01 14:37:19 UTC
Damn, and here you thought you were entitled to respect too.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2012-11-01 14:38:50 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
Damn, and here you thought you were entitled to respect too.


As my grandmother always told me, respect is never an entitlement, it is always earned - some just earn it easier than others.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#174 - 2012-11-01 14:40:58 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
KrakizBad wrote:
Damn, and here you thought you were entitled to respect too.


As my grandmother always told me, respect is never an entitlement, it is always earned - some just earn it easier than others.

Perhaps she should have mentioned something about undocking in a PVP game.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2012-11-01 14:41:55 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
KrakizBad wrote:
Damn, and here you thought you were entitled to respect too.


As my grandmother always told me, respect is never an entitlement, it is always earned - some just earn it easier than others.

Perhaps she should have mentioned something about undocking in a PVP game.


In the grand scheme of things, I'm sure she would have if it mattered even one iota.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#176 - 2012-11-01 14:48:26 UTC
Does an iota include multiple pages of you ranting for everyone else's game to be altered to satisfy your own playstyle?
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2012-11-01 14:53:46 UTC
I like how people hate most carebears for wanting EVE to be risk-free. I'm part carebear myself, but I actually want EVE to have MORE risk, especially in High-sec. Mostly because I like to see others suffer at someone else's hands. EVE without risk is like playing WoW. It may be fun to a few for a day or two, but then it just gets plain boring. In EVE, that's what we also call "Buckingham" (formerly "Singularity").

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2012-11-01 14:58:47 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
Does an iota include multiple pages of you ranting for everyone else's game to be altered to satisfy your own playstyle?


Did you miss the part where I said I don't care one way or the other? I'm sorry, let me pick up where you jumped to conclusions from.

All I tried to make a case for was that bumping should come with either a kill right or collision damage, and that's all I've ever said. If you don't like the game being altered for better balance, then I might suggest that it is you who is upset that the game doesn't suit your playstyle.

But it doesn't affect my playstyle one iota Blink

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#179 - 2012-11-01 15:05:52 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Indeed. That Jenna character, whose posts I've blocked for the fact that she fell foul of the fallacy that just because I'm new to MMOs "explains" something without considering the fact that I'm an extremely fast learner, told me back on page five or six of this thread that miners are harassed because they log on. So it is, indeed, relevant, and not a strawman.
But that's not because of how the play the game. It's that the play the game that makes them targets, and it has nothing to do with their being miners. It applies to everyone.

If you log in, you are a target. If you are a target, you will be harassed. Therefore, [ miners | mission-runners | traders | gankers | builders | spammers | scammers | explorers | can artists | null grunts | FWers | etc ] are harassed.


I agree with this in it's entirety. Thank you for some clarification on that point - yes, when you log in, you are fair game.


Your surrender is accepted, and we will petition CCP to rename your Character "the French Third Republic".

(*runs away before the French players see this post*)


Deferring to a reasonable argument is not surrendering. I stand by my position, but I have new information with which I can refine it. I'm an academic, first and foremost, before I am a journalist or a gamer or anything else. I respond to solid arguments brought forward and argued with articulation and merit. If you want to convince me of something, then you need to do it without pejoratives, sarcasm, or short simple answers with no real clarity like "they log in".


I'm not trying to convince you of anything, my post are simply pointing out the incredible flaws in what you call logic. You're no more important to me or anyone else than a grain of sand on a beach.

But ignorance and nativity have to be challenged, lest we want people to think we accept them.

Bottom line, Logging into EVE online is consent to some potentially nasty tings happening to you, things you might not enjoy, and that is the nature of a sandbox style game.

Some people don't like that and prefer an "assured fun" themepark type game, which makes their choice to log in to EVE the exact wrong one. It is no one else's fault if those people make the wrong choice in how they spend their free time such as logging in to a game that is spiritually opposed to what they think of as fun.

For some reason it's only "themeparkers" who do what you "types" do here, I don't remember ever seeing "sandboxers" invading thempark games saying "there should be non-consensual pvp. Sandbox lovers play sandbox games, but are in the minority, sometimes even in games like EVE. I hate that, why don't y'all leave us with ONE hardcore game, most mmos cater to the thempark style, why must you advocate changing ours?
Anslo
Scope Works
#180 - 2012-11-01 15:05:59 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
KrakizBad wrote:
Does an iota include multiple pages of you ranting for everyone else's game to be altered to satisfy your own playstyle?


Did you miss the part where I said I don't care one way or the other? I'm sorry, let me pick up where you jumped to conclusions from.

All I tried to make a case for was that bumping should come with either a kill right or collision damage, and that's all I've ever said. If you don't like the game being altered for better balance, then I might suggest that it is you who is upset that the game doesn't suit your playstyle.

But it doesn't affect my playstyle one iota Blink


Rem, just don't bother with it. The community is so polarized in this aspect that a debate could waste an entire day's energy when it could be utilized for something much more productive. Like pushing back in game Smile

Fly Safe Comrade o7

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