EVE General Discussion

Ok... Haven't posted in forums for months... But I had to contribute.

For as long as I can remember, (Years, btw, this is not my first character...), in every corp I have ever experienced, there is always someone old and someone new who knows how frustrating it is to go up against ecm jammers whether pve or pvp...

Granted, ecm seems to be reasonably logical in function, but it is ludicrously effective at what it does. Therein lies the problem.

If ANYTHING in this game is so effective that literally thousands of players have some kind of gripe about how a certain module or combat tactic works, then it's very clearly overpowered and should be considered nerfworthy.

OP has made a very good point. I haven't read through every post in this thread, because there are several, but I support tweaks in ecm mechanics.

Honestly, even if ecm mechanics were left exactly "as is," then something else should be changed to compensate.

I don't feel like it's a fair balance when you can have "a crappy t1 hull" that can effectively lock down many larger t2/specialized or even just larger combat vessels.

Applying logic in the sense of size vs capabilities, a smaller vessel could never generate enough power to overshadow the targeting capabilities of a much larger ship... There simply wouldn't be enough power to sustain it. (Applying basic understanding about the attributes of electricity from the real world, here..)

Perhaps a solution could be to adjust targeting mechanics themselves such that huge vessels jamming smaller vessels will not be able to maintain a perfect lock. Such as having sig radius and/or mass attributes affect targeting/locking strength in some way.

Another option could simply be described in the game as "A new technology used to update combat systems in such a way that many older ecm strategies become much less effective against newly-developed ships throughout the empires."

I'm not sure what could be done, but it should at least merit another look from CCP.

ECM seems like a very lazy way to render enemies useless in combat.

-war

This game needs things to be less predictable, not more. This whole jump back to station, change ships like a sweaty T-shirt, and hop back into the action is lametastic. If you want to roam into the unknown, then be prepared for the unknown.

You lost me at Falcon...

seriously tho, there are creative ways to deal with ECM and Falcons. just remember that once the tackle is out of cap Falcon can only jam not tackle.

ball is in your court.... whine some more or go kick some ass?

You can always just run away from the fight like I do.

Wait, where are your 5 reppers?

ECM is a counter to nearly every solo boat out their with the exception of drones and missle boats (kinda). ECCM is not effective enough to loose an entire midslot for which may significantly put a damper in your ability to fight or run from the other ECM boats around you and most of the time still isn't an effective counter.

Also why does the falcon need to be covops? A ship that is more than capable of just turning off the ability to fight back of almost 1-3 ships from 50-110km away can be completely invisible? Seems like a I win button against your average solo battlecruiser, especially since if you do have sort of way of getting close to said falcon he can easily become invisible again or just warp off for a few seconds, come back and jam you again!

No competently flown falcon ever dies unless you have some sort of alpha vessel, which isn't very good at solo pvp.
If i am flying a triple rep myrmidon and I see a gang that I can tank and possibly net a few kills that has a falcon I can't just fit an ECCM and fight them. I would have to give up either my prop or webifier and even then it is still highly probable that I will be jammed far to much to do any significant damage and if I do ill just get an unlucky jam and my target will leave! Not to mention my counter jamming weapon drones probably won't be able to get the falcon or will take for to long for them to get their! The story is similar for every battlecruiser that wants to solo pvp, giving up a utility midslot drastically neuters your ability to fight and doesn't even provide that much ecm protection anyway.

That is not to say that a jammer boat isn't the only massive force multiplier able to be put on a single ship (logi/links) but it is definitely my least favorite.

Not to mention that jamming is the only type of ewar that can't be countered by simply flying better or having a module that provides some other benefit anyway.

New and exciting topic.

ECM is fine, ECM drones however, are not.

Poster is a moron, doesn't read threads and comments.

This isn't just a rage over one fight.

This, I'm sorry but there are.

While the debate about electronic counter measure drones continues, developer posts have stated they believe this area of electronic warfare to be fine as it is.

As a long term veteran of eve online who has been on both sides of the electronic warfare many times and this I believe an incredibly solid and well thought opinion that I believe CCP share after reading many developer blogs and posts.

A dedicated electronic counter warfare boat costs 300 million isk plus, and to jam effectively requires skills such as signal dispersion to at least level four. This requires months of training for an expensive ship with little to no tank.

The individuals who believe they have an effective tank, not a small five thousand buffer tank, I mean a meaningful resistance to incoming fire from any ship class have never flown a dedicated electronic measures ship. In order to fit an effective resistance to an electronic warfare ship the precious ecm strength boost modules that are almost essential on any ECM ship and standard fitting equipment much like a shield booster on an active tanked shield ship must be sacrificed and even then the tank is simply a buffer tank in order to remain on the field for a few seconds longer. We are not talking about a buffer tank such as the hurricane or drake buffer tank, we are talking about a 10k small buffer for the purpose of surviving a small attack.

In order to pilot an effective ECM dedicated ship requires dropping almost all damage per second, and sacrificing any tank on a hull that costs well into the hundreds of millions to fit correctly.

After looking through some of the posts in this thread it has become apparent that most of the individuals arguing against ECM are amarr or gallente pilots. As ECM boats are strictly caldari (effective ones with bonuses) I can understand this, but I urge you to create an alternate character and pilot an ECM dedicated hull before passing judgement.

Electronic Counter measures do not damage your ship or decrease your capacitor or speed, they do not prevent you from warping. They prevent you from using your sensors in exchange for months of training, hundreds of millions of isk, a small fragile tank and no damage per second, the last time I fit a falcon the DPS was under 200 with tech II blasters.

I'm going to put it bluntly for those individuals to which this applies:

To think that your hurricane or your battlecruiser which you spent 6 weeks training and 70 million isk putting together should be able to single handedly remove from the battlefield a niche, expensive vessel which requires months of training times to be truly effective is arrogant to say the least. I apologise to those individuals in battleships who believe that their vessel fit is gimped by a single counter module, when two hits from your blasters would leave me 350 million isk out of pocket and a killmail down after three months of specialist training.

I'll leave you with this final question. I know that falcons and rooks are popular ships, but by no means are they any where near as popular as ships such as the drake and the hurricane and the tengu and various other assorted spacecraft. Why does everyone not pilot a falcon? I'll tell you why:

Because a falcon requires months of training, understanding of a mechanic with grey areas and a learning curve, an investment of millions of isk for a ship with the same damage per second output as a very well fit dramiel with little to no effective means of resisting any form of damage if the primary method of jamming fails. Your battleship or battlecruiser requires an F1 key and 6 weeks training, maybe the isk injection if you're flying something particularly nice.

As my previous liked post stated, ECM will not be nerfed any further for those individuals who want a simplistic game of F1 versus F1, thats not how eve online works.