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Sentry Drones
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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#61 - 2012-10-19 01:08:53 UTC
Lugia3 wrote:
+1

As an experienced drone user (perfect skills with all but sentry) I can say that this would be a great. Even better, with the upcoming drone upgrade next year, implement the option to order drones to fly to an area on the tactical overlay.


projecting drones without sending them towards targets sounds extremely OP.

ur already free to move away from ur sentries if u wish, but doing so sacrifces ur ability to immediately recall them and this is a good thing (though u CAN abandon and deploy heavies to deal with threats, then recall heavies and reconnect back to sentries when the situation suits).

what alot of ppl are asking for is removing their main disadvantage (and balancing factor) in such a way that heavies would become completely redundant.

Honestly, i'd love sentries with a little mobility so they couldn't accidentally get out of scoop range or, if they wander into POS shieds during a siege, i'd prefer it didnt take an hour to get them back. but their balancing factor is that they and urself are virtually immobile during their use.

if my drone SP's are my **** size in this discussion then i have more than this ^^ guy

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Leskit
Pure Victory
#62 - 2012-10-19 16:06:21 UTC
After more consideration, I really think the issue that should be addressed is the just out of scoop range, as Daichi Yamato has restated. Why?

Quote:
Lugia3 wrote:
+1

As an experienced drone user (perfect skills with all but sentry) I can say that this would be a great. Even better, with the upcoming drone upgrade next year, implement the option to order drones to fly to an area on the tactical overlay.


That would make sentries completely OP and would make heavy drones useless and redundant. Sentries, with good skills, are the most powerful cruiser-sized weapon, even at range, beat only by blaster boats like the Deimos, Proteus, bc's/command ships. If we're making them be able to move for a "tactical" reason....well, they already have a set of tactics, and it's also th balancing agent: drop sentries, stay there, hit anything within range, or move around, and drop more sentries and reconnect as needed to hit a certain target. Moving them around the field is a terrible idea. If you want that, use heavies!

So what are the collective solutions so far?

  • 400 m/s (or something) when not deployed, can only fire while deployed.
    • effectively lowers dps, can't scoop quickly to keep them from dying or when you need to reposition ASAP.


  • Give them a steady, albeit slow speed, e.g. 10 m/s so they will automatically regroup to you.
    • not fast enough to change the tactics, but is it enough speed to be worth it?


  • Increase scoop range to 5km or farther
    • Convenient, but 5km, just from an RP or even after a reality check is like...really? Make a drone-only tractor beam or something more plausible.


I'd rather see sentries have the second or third bullet implimented, possibly with a heavy drone speed buff (slight). I don't personally have any tactical problems with sentries right now, it's just convenience with scooping them. Maybe i'm full of bad luck, but they frequently deploy outside my ship's scoop range when I deploy them.

Could we also trade a high slot for a low slot on the Ishtar, and get a little more CPU? 4 hi/5 mid/6 low?
Alundil
Rolled Out
#63 - 2012-10-19 17:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Alundil
Excellent idea. This warms the cockles of my Gallentean heart.


**Edit**

And for those countering the "deploy for strategic reasons" issue. This is already possibly currently; It just takes time.

Fly to "tactical_perch_01"
Deploy sentries
Fly to "tactical_perch_02"
...
Perch


Being able to direct them to "tactical_perch_01" without having to fly the 111m/s Domi there is merely a timesaver. It doesn't convey any other benefit to engagements that aren't already available as far as I can see.

I'm right behind you
ColdCutz
Frigonometry
#64 - 2012-10-19 20:05:11 UTC  |  Edited by: ColdCutz
poppeteer wrote:
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:

We're not going to agree on this. I will say two things.

1. Regarding your example for #4, it won't work. Your sentries will never be able to make it back to you if you simply issue a recall order while still orbiting @20k @Highspeed. They would just end up doing little circles inside of your big circles.

2. I know 'my dps' is 'my dps'. If I cannot APPLY that dps for greater portions of a battle then my 'dps for that battle' is reduced.
1. Wow, you just double-click toward your sentries.. Problem solved.
2. Once again. If retrieval is still made instant once sentries are within 2500m range, then nothing changes for you if you sit by your drones. Problem solved.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#65 - 2012-10-20 01:01:54 UTC
Alundil wrote:
Excellent idea. This warms the cockles of my Gallentean heart.


**Edit**

And for those countering the "deploy for strategic reasons" issue. This is already possibly currently; It just takes time.

Fly to "tactical_perch_01"
Deploy sentries
Fly to "tactical_perch_02"
...
Perch


Being able to direct them to "tactical_perch_01" without having to fly the 111m/s Domi there is merely a timesaver. It doesn't convey any other benefit to engagements that aren't already available as far as I can see.


if ur edit means what i think it means, then ur saying its ok to send sentries to a 'perch'?

the reason this is a bad idea is not that its just a time saver but the fact that it means u can use sentries all the time with no drawbacks. u could gain aggro and then send the sentries to a distant tactical perch and never have to swap to smalls or heavies when rats come to orbit u tightly because the sentries will still track well. there is no point in having any other type of drone other than sentries at this point.

i know u mentioned that u can sort of achieve this already by deploying and moving, but as currently proposed, these sentries will move A LOT faster than a battleship, especially when that battleship probably doesnt have a prop mod and is webbed several times.

another problem is that u can keep repositioning the drones further and further back, so u can retreat from rats in ur ship and just move ur drones along with u every now and then. either that or keep recalling and projecting them.

its also for this reason that their recall speed needs to be very slow whether u can project them or not. u shouldnt be able to deploy them, move back, recall on the move and then redeploy again. u should have to get to some kind of close proximity to collect them within good time, or they will be just too mobile.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-10-20 01:57:18 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Alundil wrote:
Excellent idea. This warms the cockles of my Gallentean heart.


**Edit**

And for those countering the "deploy for strategic reasons" issue. This is already possibly currently; It just takes time.

Fly to "tactical_perch_01"
Deploy sentries
Fly to "tactical_perch_02"
...
Perch


Being able to direct them to "tactical_perch_01" without having to fly the 111m/s Domi there is merely a timesaver. It doesn't convey any other benefit to engagements that aren't already available as far as I can see.


if ur edit means what i think it means, then ur saying its ok to send sentries to a 'perch'?

the reason this is a bad idea is not that its just a time saver but the fact that it means u can use sentries all the time with no drawbacks. u could gain aggro and then send the sentries to a distant tactical perch and never have to swap to smalls or heavies when rats come to orbit u tightly because the sentries will still track well. there is no point in having any other type of drone other than sentries at this point.

i know u mentioned that u can sort of achieve this already by deploying and moving, but as currently proposed, these sentries will move A LOT faster than a battleship, especially when that battleship probably doesnt have a prop mod and is webbed several times.

another problem is that u can keep repositioning the drones further and further back, so u can retreat from rats in ur ship and just move ur drones along with u every now and then. either that or keep recalling and projecting them.

its also for this reason that their recall speed needs to be very slow whether u can project them or not. u shouldnt be able to deploy them, move back, recall on the move and then redeploy again. u should have to get to some kind of close proximity to collect them within good time, or they will be just too mobile.


Though being able to tactically place sentries does seem a bit OP atm, once AI changes come this winter where they switch targets, they may need to be able to be tactically deployed in order for them to be effective, or even usable.
However, I also feel that both medium and heavy drones need their mwd velocity increased by a fairly decent amount.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#67 - 2012-10-20 10:04:49 UTC
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:


Though being able to tactically place sentries does seem a bit OP atm, once AI changes come this winter where they switch targets, they may need to be able to be tactically deployed in order for them to be effective, or even usable.
However, I also feel that both medium and heavy drones need their mwd velocity increased by a fairly decent amount.


i was going to say that sentries will be used even more after the change. because u can instantly recall them, they are always the safest drones to use. ive never lost a single sentry in missions, but i have lost a few heavies. infact, so safe are sentries that i can wait till they get to low shields before scooping them.

if heavies and mediums got a boost to speed i wouldn't mind, its only going to help me, and i dnt think it would matter that much in pvp.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-10-20 13:55:36 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:


Though being able to tactically place sentries does seem a bit OP atm, once AI changes come this winter where they switch targets, they may need to be able to be tactically deployed in order for them to be effective, or even usable.
However, I also feel that both medium and heavy drones need their mwd velocity increased by a fairly decent amount.


i was going to say that sentries will be used even more after the change. because u can instantly recall them, they are always the safest drones to use. ive never lost a single sentry in missions, but i have lost a few heavies. infact, so safe are sentries that i can wait till they get to low shields before scooping them.

if heavies and mediums got a boost to speed i wouldn't mind, its only going to help me, and i dnt think it would matter that much in pvp.


Valid point.

As far as heavies and meds, this won't effect their dps, just the amount of time it takes to reach the target.

Now, back on the sentries.
There are drone boats such as the gila, ishtar, and others that are best suited by orbiting their drones.
With npcs switching tagets, they won't be able to do this and could possibly remove some of them from being able to run lvl 4s.
However, this may be CCPs goal. No more bcs and cruisers in lvl 4 missions.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#69 - 2012-10-20 19:44:29 UTC
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:



Now, back on the sentries.
There are drone boats such as the gila, ishtar, and others that are best suited by orbiting their drones.
With npcs switching tagets, they won't be able to do this and could possibly remove some of them from being able to run lvl 4s.
However, this may be CCPs goal. No more bcs and cruisers in lvl 4 missions.


wouldn't put it past them. or at least letting them run solo. remember the changes to the AI also include NPC's targetting ships closer to their own size. so fleets made up of ships of varying sizes are alot more viable and u wont have frigs or cruiser being instapopped by swarms of battleships in level 4's...hopefully

i think they also intend to buff NPC's but reduce their numbers. reducing lag and giving missions an atmosphere closer to pvp (or that may just be FW rats). something like that will be a big boost to smaller faster ships like the ishtar and gila.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-11-01 13:15:21 UTC
bump
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-11-01 13:35:54 UTC
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
bump


FYI - You can't do that in here.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-11-01 13:41:16 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
bump


FYI - You can't do that in here.


it's happened on almost every thread I've ever seen, so someone might wanna tell all those people.

That said, it's hard to keep players interested in a thread when only 8 threads of the F&I aren't sticky..

Seriously, CCP should just create a stickies folder and put them all in there.