EVE General Discussion

Again, making assumptions. I'm actually a journalist, studying a post graduate major in PR and Foreign Policy. I ain't going anywhere, I'll play this game as I please, when I please, as long as my account is active. I'll "gtfo" when I want to, not when some epeen elitist tells me to. I'm not applying any morality at all, I'm exploring the facts. The game is about conflict to you, fine, but to others it's about exploration, it's about mystery, it's about economy and even making new friends. It's about a lot of things beyond what you take from it as meaning, and YOU'RE mistake is that you think what the game means to YOU, and JUST you, is what it should mean to everybody.

You're other mistake is making loads of silly assumptions. Age is no measure of wisdom, but nevertheless, you might be surprised with mine.

End of the day, I'm not going anywhere, and nobody should just because you say so.

Carebears are entitled to play by the same rules as everyone else who plays Eve.

No more, no less.

You undock, you are fair game for ganking.

I don't disagree with this at all, everyone in the game is fair game as far as I'm concerned. My only point, and the only one I've had from the start, is that there need to be potential consequences for every decision, every action.

You think that kind of attitude is going to help you at all? If anything, people are just going to laugh at you for thinking your opinion means more than anyone else's.

…aside from assigning “mentalities” to people based on their in-game actions and equating them to real-life motivations.

You are assuming that any such equation can be made; you are assuming that game rules mirror real-world rules; you are assigning blame based on incomplete patterns of interaction. Your hobby-psych finger-pointing is not facts — it's you applying a different set of morality onto a game where a central theme is the lack of any such morality (and where it would be inapplicable anyway).

…and we're saying that the game they want to play is not EVE. The problem is when that sense of entitlement makes them claim that they must be allowed to play EVE the way they want, when that's not what the game is about. The standard analogy applies: it's as if people got really upset that they keep getting shot in the face on CS_Italy, when all they want to do is grow and sell produce, and demand that the game be changed to let them do that…

…when the actual solution is that they stop trying to turn an FPS into Harvest Moon and go play the game they want to play instead.

Just one problem: the only reason it's “without consequences” (which is an incorrect description anyway — there are enforced consequences but the whiners ignore or refuse to accept this basic fact because it would ruin their point) is because the victims choose to void those consequences. They are the ones who are supposed to enforce them, and they decide to let the matter slide. Then they get upset that there are no consequences — never mind the fact that they chose to remove them.

Just have to add this, because it fits.

Some random carebear in minmatar chat said that he demands respect from me,
because he gave away billions to random people a few days ago.

*shakeshead*

A-freaking-men to that. I use a similar analogy "A guy joins a soccer team and goes out on the field but is opposed to the violence of kicking a helpless, defenseless ball that has done nothing to offend him so rather than play soccer he goes of to a corner of the field and start peacefully picking daisies, because you know that's his preferred way to play soccer....

:) .

In EVE there surely is, and I knew about it before I downloaded the game......



None of which has anything to do with EVE. EVE is a game, a product created by some crazy icelandic psycohpaths that THEY tell you is cold, dark and harsh and where you should (according to the videos and numerous pronouncements) H-T-F-U.



I don't doubt that your are a journalist as anyone with a blog and an internet connection can be one. Rest assured, I am what I say I am, and I deal with stupidity such as this a lot, which is why your "stance" is totally unsurprising to me. Despite your claims, you really don't udnerstand what the game is about, despite a whole LOAD of easily verifiable evidence (hell, you could watch ccp producer video after video where the TELL you what the game they make is about), but yo'd rather stick to what you THINK the game is and should be about.

The fact is simple, if miners don't like bumping and ganking there is a lot they can do about it. The most vocal of them simply chose to complain in hope of yet more modifications to the game. I find that annoying.

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Who is stopping the miner from playing how they want to play. We're simply demonstrating to them that all choices have consequences. Their choice to undock in space claimed by fictional evil space murders is a choice, the consequence is, well, what happens to them sometimes.




I'm not judging your profession on the mistakes of a few, I'm watching you try to impose YOUR sense of morality and reality on a game situation that does not in any way support that. I'm simply pointing out that I've personally watched many a "journalist" do the exact same thing in real life (you also could have said you were a lawyer, I'd have had the same reaction), which is why I was not surprised in the least when you said that's what you do for a living.

I think that analogy would work better with AFK miners - but I can actually agree with a lot of what Tippia says. She may even have a point about my application of "morality", although that wasn't what I was trying to do. I'm really not trying to apply a sense of real world morality, just a sense of justice for those that are trying to enjoy the game but are nevertheless forced into non-consensual PvP circumstances. At the very least, to prevent it from driving players off the game completely.

On the other hand, I would hate to see EVE develop the kind of population we see in games like WoW (which I only state based on hearsay, I haven't actually played it myself, and EVE is actually my first MMO, so I may indeed have a lot to learn yet, but bear with me here).

Let's get back to the core of the issue here for a moment - miner bumping. I can see this being a reasonable tactic to remove belligerent AFK individuals, and even people with more than one account, but not those who solo the asteroids and are putting the hard yards in. There are mins that are only available in low-sec, where miners go at their own peril. If they go there, and get destroyed, they have nothing to complain about. It's happened to me a few times.

If miners are being attacked in high sec, then there are consequences for the attacker, and then the ATTACKER has nothing to complain about, knowing full well what the consequences would be.

The system currently in place is one that I personally agree with, and while I'm not a miner-by-trade in-game, I just can't see why everyone has their panties in such a bunch over a few people who want to play the game the way they are, by both the fact that they are subscribers and the fact that mining is a legitimate activity of the game, entitled to play it. And I use that word only because that is the word that applies. You can complain about that entitlement, call it whatever you want. They are NOT entitled to expect perfect happy little mining operations, where they are completely without danger, but they ARE entitled to mine nonetheless. I don't think anyone is entitled to expect anything, though. Just to play the game the way they want to.

That's all I'm trying to say.

What sense of entitlement do you have to dictate to anyone else whether EVE is the game for them or not or whether their play style should be excluded. EVE is and should be big enough for which ever way you want to play, barring extremes at both ends of the argument.


and your CS analogy is extreme as to be pointless.


Tal