EVE General Discussion

On a very basic level, FCing at all doesn't require much more skill than the average player has. People are better off being given common goals by one person, even if that one person is **** at it.

Good FCs however are doing significantly more than you can image though. Now, I only FC small gnag PvP usually. I think the biggest group I ever FCed only had 40 people in it. But an FC needs an understanding of where all of his ships are, you have to remember and keep track of a few scouts, plus the main body of the fleet. If it's small gang you probably need to know and remember what everyone is flying and roughly how they've fit their ship. On top of that, you need to understand PvP and make decisions that will mean explosions for someone. And that someone has to be someone not in your fleet.

People often say I am one of the calmest FCs they'll ever fly with, but sometimes you need to get a little bitchy with people, because sometimes one persons mistakes can kill the whole fleet.

As for FCing PvE, I've done that as well, and frankly it takes significantly less skill. Sorry. If you can do it yourself, you can tell 10 other people how to do it. If you can't do it yourself, like Incursions or Sleepers, you just tell the logi to do their stuff and then carry on anyway.

QQ ..apparently you don't know, so maybe you shouldn't be making statements. Besides, there are plenty of youtube videos of 0.0 fleet engagements for reference, even for those who haven't been in one.

I have once, but it was a mass test on SiSi. Apart from that, my only experience with Blobs is getting destroyed by them without mercy. That doesn't mean I can't figure out that you put 2000 people in a fleet and have one guy shouting commands like Primary this, Secondary that, now Primary Secondary, now Secondary that, now primary that, and so on doesn't take a whole lot of skill.

Just ask anyone in a Null Alliance where there tactics start and end, and I guarantee you it will be one of two answers, (if they're honest): The fittings, or the meta game.

If you need proof, I'm sure you can figure out that all the lack of concern about Fleet mechanics not being particularly functional is relevant somehow.

FCs aren't generals; CEOs are.
FCs aren't professors.

FCs are mostly people who refuse to listen to reason, accept or abide other peoples opinions, or allow people to have the last word, even when they know they're wrong.

That isn't to say all fleets have shouting maniacs as FCs; that would be over-generalizing.

Let me think.. Jump, jump, jump, on gate, on gate, drop bubbles, primary , primary, secondary, secondary, go, go, etc..

So what does an FC do? Mostly, an FC makes sure the group is doing one thing, instead of many. Some skill is required to make that happen, and some knowledge to make it effective, but all it really is, is organizing a mass to one goal.

Provided everybody does what they are told, that isn't particularly complicated. Making sure that it works in everybodies favor is a little more demanding.

That is not tactics, strategy, or highly organized maneuvers however. That little trick with the drake ball vs. the smartbomb wall is strategy. Dropping a cyno to jump in an informed Cap ship pilot at just the right moment is tactics. Not informing that pilot is meta.

That doesn't happen in every fleet so far as I know. Just as a very telling point, I'll point out that FCs were more or less equally functional when the fleets were lagged out completely, with members dropping to disconnects and suffering from frame rates of 1-6 frames and actions per minute and zero control of the situation.

What does that tell you?

My Mass test experience was more often like that, than not. Much of it involved helpless inaction, with some of it giving me the opportunity to target a ship and even fire off a few rounds, and some of it being jammed out, unable to fire or do anything but watch my ship slowly skip through the battle. Eventually I just disco'd.

Command that.

you're right, FCing gigantic fleets is easy, that's why there are less than ten bloc-level FCs in the entire game

Well, that hardly makes what I said less than generalizing does it. I mean 10 guys out of 400'000...

Whaaaaaaa?

No, the reason fleets have specific ships (a primary workhorse, logi, and a half dozen or so support filling various roles) is because they operate as a single unit. Not because it is "impossible" or "hard" to coordinate a kitchen sink fleet - because a kitchen sink fleet has no purpose. It is like a ship with every gun type fitted.

A good fleet has a very specific role it is filling - countering the opponent's fleet, covering supercaps, stationary POS defense, etc. This requires every damage ship to be operating at the same ranges with similar tracking, and it requires a uniform tank type across its entirety. Every single ship is a piece of a machine that the FC is operating, each individual member relied on to fill his role. Some roles are very individual skill focused, some involve little more than locking and shooting.

A fleet is a COHESIVE UNIT. You've never been in a real one have you?

I've been in command channels during huge stratops involving multiple subcap fleets and supercaps operating simultaneously. Each fleet has its own FC, of course, but somebody has to coordinate everything on the fly, often while running a fleet themselves. It's stressful, it requires a lot of multitasking and it requires quite a bit of skill. There are very few people in the game who can do that.

Do some relevant nullsec FCing and come back then.

If there's one thing that will get fleet members killed quicker than any FC error, it's when the fleet members start backbiting and backseat driving..

Backseat driving = telling the FC what he's doing wrong?

Sounds like an ego issue, i'm the driver not you!

Either way pretty much all the fleets I've been in people have followed orders rather well. My point was that with these FCs that think getting bitchy with people is a solution to the problems which they are presented with, are usually the same people that don't take criticism very well.

Your right, FCing against a few dozen predictable NPC with bad AI as far FAR harder than FCing 250 people against another 250 (or more people) in varied fleet compositions, unknown variables and with your very sovereign space at stake.