These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

Must be a tough balancing act

Author
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-11-01 03:35:21 UTC
CCP is a for-profit company, meaning they don't just exist to make money, but to make the most money possible.

This means appealing to as wide a rage of the potential market as possible. Hard-core gamers that want to just run wild blowing up everyone in sight, have to co-exist in a non-sharded universe with the casual farmville players. Too many restrictions, the hard core gamers will quit. Not enough restrictions, the farmville types will quit.

PVPers roam low sec for hours and find no targets. System after system is empty or everyone docks up the moment they show up. Then they go to high sec and see 100s or even 1000s of players. Oh, if only they could shoot all these people. Hint, if you could shoot them, they wouldn't be there. They'd be off playing a different game where they won't get shot.

At the same time, it is the boom that drives the market. Too many carebears and not enough boom, suddenly there is a glut of everything and no demand.

( Well, since prices of T1 have basically doubled in the last year since meta 0 loot was removed, that does not seem to be the problem. Perhaps missioning is too profitable, dumping too much ISK into the game? Well, missioning is way less profitable now. Loot gone, cost of ammo up, and the stuff you buy with the ISK has doubled in price.)

Make PVP less painful. Heck, with insurance, it already is pretty painless for t1 fits.... And still poeple were self-destructing ships for the insurance instead of PVPing to lose them for the insurance. How do you make it less painful than ships selling at insurance value? Have insurance pay for the fit too?


I actually think CCP has done a pretty good job of providing areas for everyone. IF I could change a few things it would be.

1) No BS in high sec. Want to run L4s in high sec, do it in a BC, or better a group of BC.
2) No caps in low sec. Give a place for young, sub-cap corporations to set up and play around as they build and get ready for 0.0 without worrying about caps getting dropped on them.
3) no super caps above -.5
Torvin Yulus
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-11-01 03:35:56 UTC
i pay my 150 a month so you know what i win

the people unitd

im a pubby and im proud

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-11-01 03:40:44 UTC
lol new people

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

TuonelanOrja
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-11-01 03:43:40 UTC
NARDAC wrote:


PVPers roam low sec for hours and find no EASY targets...


ftfy

Not a veteran, just bitter..

Smiknight
Smiknight Corporation
#5 - 2012-11-01 04:00:09 UTC
CCP doesn't have a balance problem, players do.
A reward devoid of risk is no reward at all, but is instead a handout.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#6 - 2012-11-01 04:28:22 UTC
I think most people, including CCP, are looking at it wrong.

It's never been about hisec people just being stupid and scared. They have genuine problems with 0.0 mechanics or PvP in general.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-11-01 05:40:41 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
CCP is a for-profit company, meaning they don't just exist to make money, but to make the most money possible.

This means appealing to as wide a rage of the potential market as possible.


This is where you went wrong.

A company printing books in Braille won't throw out all their equipment and buy new printing presses just to start printing regular books to "appeal to as wide market as possible". They have their own niche, their set of customers, and they make money by trying to appeal to this community the best they can.

It's the same with CCP, they designed EVE to be a unique game, catering to a specific minority of gamers: those that want a harsh player-driven universe where choices have consequences, and interaction with other people is more important than grinding NPCs.

Asking CCP to change the game to your own liking because you think you can make economic decisions for them is just like coming to a Braille bookstore and asking them to sell you regular books.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#8 - 2012-11-01 05:58:09 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
NARDAC wrote:
CCP is a for-profit company, meaning they don't just exist to make money, but to make the most money possible.

This means appealing to as wide a rage of the potential market as possible.


This is where you went wrong.

A company printing books in Braille won't throw out all their equipment and buy new printing presses just to start printing regular books to "appeal to as wide market as possible". They have their own niche, their set of customers, and they make money by trying to appeal to this community the best they can.

It's the same with CCP, they designed EVE to be a unique game, catering to a specific minority of gamers: those that want a harsh player-driven universe where choices have consequences, and interaction with other people is more important than grinding NPCs.

Asking CCP to change the game to your own liking because you think you can make economic decisions for them is just like coming to a Braille bookstore and asking them to sell you regular books.


I like that. We can apply it to the real world to: The real world was only designed for one kind of person, so all those who don't fit in that category can just f off.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
isk4trade
Cogitation Mining and Industrial Trading
#9 - 2012-11-01 06:12:36 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:

I like that. We can apply it to the real world to: The real world was only designed for one kind of person, so all those who don't fit in that category can just f off.


... What he said ... lol

Excellent response !

me

ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#10 - 2012-11-01 06:18:18 UTC
Your face has terrified me

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.

Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#11 - 2012-11-01 06:36:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Wacktopia
isk4trade wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:

I like that. We can apply it to the real world to: The real world was only designed for one kind of person, so all those who don't fit in that category can just f off.


... What he said ... lol

Excellent response !

me



Not quite.

CCP makes a product and just like in the real world that product might not appeal to everyone.

Let's take a better example: Marmite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite). Some people love it, others hate it.

But one thing is for sure; the company that makes Marmite cannot change it too much to satisfy the haters without risking losing the lovers.

Sure, they could make a different product that appealed to the haters but the fact remains that they cannot change their original product too drastically without weighted risk of failure.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com

Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-11-01 06:46:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rordan D'Kherr
Wacktopia wrote:


CCP makes a product and just like in the real world that product might not appeal to everyone.

Let's take a better example: Marmite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite). Some people love it, others hate it.

But one thing is for sure; the company that makes Marmite cannot change it too much to satisfy the haters without risking losing the lovers.

Sure, they could make a different product that appealed to the haters but the fact remains that they cannot change their original product too drastically with weighted risk of failure.


Exactly.

You like EvE incl. all sandbox aspects and the paradigm of being a harsh, cruel etc. MMO? Be welcome (and blown up).

You dont like it? Arrow there you go.

In other words: HTFU

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.

usrevenge
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-11-01 07:06:53 UTC
if you are making a decent profit, that is all that matters. being for profit doesn't mean you have to price gouge or sell out.
Herr Hammer Draken
#14 - 2012-11-01 08:31:11 UTC
This whole economics of balance happens because players want to run more than one character and then want to plex the accounts. Thus the pressure to earn isk enough to pay for the plex is rather high. This drives all the complaints when players feel their style of play is over burdened as compared to another because of the work involved to plex their accounts.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-11-01 08:35:22 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
Then they go to high sec and see 100s or even 1000s of players. Oh, if only they could shoot all these people. Hint, if you could shoot them, they wouldn't be there.

We can shoot them, at least until CCP releases EVE Online: Trammel.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-11-01 08:43:36 UTC
Ok I could nitpick the first part of the OP as others have done but I kinda dig his suggestions. I revised some:

1) No BS in high sec. Want to run L4s in high sec, do it in a BC, or better a group of BC.
2) No super caps in low sec.
3) Only small POS allowed in high sec
4) More shootable assets in space

No caps of all type allowed in low sec is interesting, it would hamper force projection as 0.0 space is a thin wide ring. I think cap hotdropping should be left to 0.0 blobs and out of low sec as well, have to think more on this. It would make moving ship hangars around fairly hair pulling.
Geligdio Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-11-01 08:57:54 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
CCP is a for-profit company, meaning they don't just exist to make money, but to make the most money possible.

This means appealing to as wide a rage of the potential market as possible. Hard-core gamers that want to just run wild blowing up everyone in sight, have to co-exist in a non-sharded universe with the casual farmville players. Too many restrictions, the hard core gamers will quit. Not enough restrictions, the farmville types will quit.

PVPers roam low sec for hours and find no targets. System after system is empty or everyone docks up the moment they show up. Then they go to high sec and see 100s or even 1000s of players. Oh, if only they could shoot all these people. Hint, if you could shoot them, they wouldn't be there. They'd be off playing a different game where they won't get shot.

At the same time, it is the boom that drives the market. Too many carebears and not enough boom, suddenly there is a glut of everything and no demand.

( Well, since prices of T1 have basically doubled in the last year since meta 0 loot was removed, that does not seem to be the problem. Perhaps missioning is too profitable, dumping too much ISK into the game? Well, missioning is way less profitable now. Loot gone, cost of ammo up, and the stuff you buy with the ISK has doubled in price.)

Make PVP less painful. Heck, with insurance, it already is pretty painless for t1 fits.... And still poeple were self-destructing ships for the insurance instead of PVPing to lose them for the insurance. How do you make it less painful than ships selling at insurance value? Have insurance pay for the fit too?


I actually think CCP has done a pretty good job of providing areas for everyone. IF I could change a few things it would be.

1) No BS in high sec. Want to run L4s in high sec, do it in a BC, or better a group of BC.
2) No caps in low sec. Give a place for young, sub-cap corporations to set up and play around as they build and get ready for 0.0 without worrying about caps getting dropped on them.
3) no super caps above -.5



Nice post.

I agree wth some of the above posts, trying to appease everyone is a mistake. The game should play to it's niche and become the most awesome thing of it's kind, not another thing of a generic kind.

People play the game because it is awesome, CCP's goal is to make it as awesome as possible, that is way to make the most money, not farmville players.

Thanks

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-11-01 09:08:38 UTC
Geligdio Khan wrote:
People play the game because it is awesome, CCP's goal is to make it as awesome as possible, that is way to make the most money, not farmville players.

Good thing they're working hard to make nullsec worth living in and roaming through, then.

Oh wait, no, they're busy making hisec safe from nullsec guys because nullsec isn't worth living in and roaming around in, so we're getting our tears from hisec instead. Oh well. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-11-01 15:54:47 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
I think most people, including CCP, are looking at it wrong.

It's never been about hisec people just being stupid and scared. They have genuine problems with 0.0 mechanics or PvP in general.



I can't tell you how many people I have encountered in this game that openly say they have NO interest in PVP. It doesn't matter the mechanics, they aren't going to do it.

Look, what is the fun of PVP? To prove you are the better player? Okay, cool.

But, what if you know you are not the better player, and have no desire to attempt to get better. You have no desire to constantly prove that you suck. You are just looking to log in for an hour or two, three times a week or so, do some mining or missioning with friends, maybe make enough ISK for a PLEX so you can play for free.

This is a huge chunk of the player base, and those people aren't going to 0.0, regardless of the mechanics.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#20 - 2012-11-01 16:02:49 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
NARDAC wrote:
CCP is a for-profit company, meaning they don't just exist to make money, but to make the most money possible.

This means appealing to as wide a rage of the potential market as possible.


This is where you went wrong.

A company printing books in Braille won't throw out all their equipment and buy new printing presses just to start printing regular books to "appeal to as wide market as possible". They have their own niche, their set of customers, and they make money by trying to appeal to this community the best they can.

It's the same with CCP, they designed EVE to be a unique game, catering to a specific minority of gamers: those that want a harsh player-driven universe where choices have consequences, and interaction with other people is more important than grinding NPCs.

Asking CCP to change the game to your own liking because you think you can make economic decisions for them is just like coming to a Braille bookstore and asking them to sell you regular books.


And yet LEGIONS of people don't get this.

At some point CCP has/had to accept that only so many people like this kind of thing. If they wanted to "make as much money as possible" My machariel would be a flying unicorn and my autocannons would morph into a bow and arrow, because people like that crap more than they like exploding space ships.

And yet before the day is done someone who doesn't get it will post a "IDEA, EVE would get so many more subs IF!" post detailing about destroying EVE's niche will make the world a better place.

Sure, CCP can probably squeeze more money out of EVE while keeping to the spirit of the game, but that will always only go so far. What i find (sadly) Amazing is the huge number of people who don't like what EVE is about who keep paying the subs and keep logging in like some masochistic gimp waiting for yet another lash from the whip......
123Next page