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Lets talk Lasers, and some of the issues with them
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DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2011-10-19 13:20:07 UTC
SMT008 wrote:
Rhinanna wrote:

Other than bug fixes, nothing is wrong with lasers. The fitting requirements are pretty much the same as ACs/Arties, maybe very slightly more, but try fitting 1400mm


I fly Maelstroms since the beginning of the alphafleet doctrine, I know about 1400mms.

T2 1400mm => 3575
T2 Tachyons => 4125

Yeh it's only 550 additionnal PWG.

T2 1400mm => 47 CPU
T2 Tachyons => 63 CPU

Oh, and 16 additionnal CPU. Not a big deal.

When you fit 8 of them (2 battleships out of 3 can fit a full rack of guns, in the Amarr battleship line), it suddenly becomes a problem.


You cannot compare Tachyons with 1400mm's. You have to compare them to Mega beam laser II's.

Tachyons are a class appart and perfect for marauders. If you do want to compare them to 1400mm arties also compare the damage output and not only the fitting cost! Roll

dps calc: (base)
damage mod / duration
Tach's: 5.4 / 12.5 = 0.432
1400's: 12.807 / 40.163 = 0.319

Result :1400mm's have 74% of the damage output of tachs

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2011-10-19 13:25:23 UTC
Lasers should be changed so that the turret models look like sharks.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Astor Daeoli
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-10-19 13:35:47 UTC
Can we fix hybrids first? I crossed trained all weapons on my main (account has run out and I'm taking my time to reactivate it for some reason). Hybrids are the weakest link atm. I use lasers and like them, use projectiles and like em, hell I even use heavy missiles and like em, but I don't bother to use my t2 hybrids.
AureoLion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-10-19 13:40:18 UTC
Sure, 550 more PWG
But an Abaddon has 25410 PWG to fit 8 his, where a maelstrom has 21000.
And don't bring the t2/t3 work in, the Typhoon has much less grid (and fits missiles, but still)
AureoLion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-10-19 13:41:38 UTC
DeBingJos wrote:
[quote=SMT008][quote=Rhinanna]

dps calc: (base)
damage mod / duration
Tach's: 5.4 / 12.5 = 0.432
1400's: 12.807 / 40.163 = 0.319

Result :1400mm's have 74% of the damage output of tachs


Yep, but 1400mms are alpha-based, not dps-based.
And they're the correspective of Tachs, while megapulse compares to 1200mm
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2011-10-19 13:45:07 UTC
AureoLion wrote:
DeBingJos wrote:
[quote=SMT008][quote=Rhinanna]

dps calc: (base)
damage mod / duration
Tach's: 5.4 / 12.5 = 0.432
1400's: 12.807 / 40.163 = 0.319

Result :1400mm's have 74% of the damage output of tachs


Yep, but 1400mms are alpha-based, not dps-based.
And they're the correspective of Tachs, while megapulse compares to 1200mm

No they are not.

1200 vs Dual heavy beam laser
1400 vs Mega beam laser
nothing vs Tachyon beam laser

There exist 2 types of large artillery and 3 types of large beam lasers.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Chum Tea
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-10-19 15:24:37 UTC
To the OP's request: seconded!

This keeps bugging me as well. It has nothing to do with buffing/nerfing anything. Crystals need a damage indicator, preferably similar to the ammo count of other weapons systems (or some text overlay: 68%). If that's too much to ask, pretty please at least fix the reload issue.
Sphit Ker
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2011-10-19 15:27:52 UTC
AureoLion wrote:
Sure, 550 more PWG
But an Abaddon has 25410 PWG to fit 8 his, where a maelstrom has 21000.
And don't bring the t2/t3 work in, the Typhoon has much less grid (and fits missiles, but still)



The joke is, you can fit Maelstrom with 1400s with very little fitting compromises, if at all. T2 1400s will require some help such a PDS, which boost your tank and cap anyway. Meanwhile, the T2 Tachyon Abaddon blows the grid over by 13.14%, minimum, and that's just the turrets. Have fun with 1600mm plates and heat sinks and the mandatory MWD and cap booster.

No, really. There's something funky in there.What?

It knows what you think.
Alama Kota
Imperium Internum
#29 - 2011-10-19 15:41:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Alama Kota
Wouldn't simply making crystals more like ammo already fix most of these issues? Instead of, say, a Scorch crystal being good for 1000 shots just turn it into 1000 charges. Reduce cost and weight accordingly. Voila, no more stacking/reloading problems.

Faction and T2 only ofc, T1 can stay like it is.
Skeith Oumis
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2011-10-19 15:43:02 UTC
Reload issue crew reporting in.

I suspect the problem is tied to the way the auto-reload works, and how damaged crystals are treated. To explain, when you switch ammo, EVE seems to like using fresh crystals over damaged ones (Or maybe I just keep missing the "[Used]" option in the heat of battle, vOv).

Anyway, used crystals can't be stacked. This leads me to believe they're treated as different items on a code level, which probably also means when the reloader goes to look for "Scorch M" and it only finds "Used Scorch M" it says "Welp no more ammo!" and your guns become a flaming pile of useless until you either manually toggle ammo or drag a crystal on to the group.

As to why the ammo switching code doesn't exhibit this same bug, I have no idea.

Also while we're requesting fixes to crystal use, once auto reload is fixed it'd be great if the loader biased toward damaged crystals, so I don't keep getting holds full of crystals at 3% that can never be stacked again
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