Science & Industry

I have been trying to start a "perfect" BPO collection. As it is supposed to be a collection, any types of comments regarding how useless it is to spend 3 days researching a BPO to save 1 Tritanium or 1 second aren't useful to me, as lower time-efficient values may be sufficient for an industralist, but it is not "perfect" enough for a collection. I know also that some people likes to collect or research BPOs with rounded values like 100 ME and 100 PE, but I do consider that stupid, because if I researched ME to 100 on a BPO that max out at a lower value like Iron Charge L at 44 ME, in that case you are really wasting time researching for absolutely NO return, while on the case of Antimatter Charge L that max out at 320 ME it is still not perfect.


I looked around a lot, and there are many tools and online databases that includes Blueprint Calculators. One of the main issues with these tools is that some don't round properly, so at first you don't know what one to trust. Perfect ME seems to be accurate on most of these tools (Possibily the most important exception being EVEMon Blueprint browser values, some BPOs got 1 ME higher that others tools), so that seems to be a non-issue, as there seems to be some tools that use the actual game formula. However, I still doubt when a BPO got a Waste Factor different that 0.10 or has "Extra Materials", as you usually don't notice that until it is too late (Chruker DB, for example, tells you ME values on structures like this where all the materials are considered Extra Materials, so the actual Perfect ME value is 0), but for most BPOs that doesn't apply. So basically, there seems to be some consensus on a correct formula.

However, things are different when it comes to Perfect PE...

After A LOT of googling, the first thing that I noticed is that there doesn't seems to be an actual "Perfect PE" value, because the game just rounds at the final production run time value, so on production runs it seems that you can shave a few seconds or minutes with ridiculous high PE values on a month long production queue, that if you were to produce just a single item run, it may appear that you reached an actual maximum.
The only two online databases that reports any sort of "Perfect PE" value are the Chruker DB and Zufo DB, which usually gives you half of the PE value of the previous one. Chruker DB seems to match the time production values reported by EveHQ Prism (Add or take a second), that seems to match the ingame values when you are trying to produce something, however, I didn't did any exhaustive field test to verify if they're right. But basically, when it comes to PE research, I don't know what value could be considered "perfect" for a given BPO.
Anyone nailed down the actual game formula for PE, or a value that could be considered "perfect"? Or I should settle with Chruker values?

Production Time = Base Time * (1 + Time Waste / (1 + PE)) * (1 - Industry * 0.04)

Base Time = Time before skills on PE 0 BPO / (1 + Time Waste)

Most BPO have 25% production time waste (fuel blocks are weird; I haven't figured them out yet).

I use:
* PE 2 on capitals
* PE 50 on rigs and ships (and most everything, but this is often overkill)
* PE 60 on ammo (5m -> 4m)
* PE 120 on modules (10m -> 8m)
* PE 500 on R.A.M. (because I use tons of it)

Take the before skill production time, convert to seconds, and divide by 5. This gives you <1 second of waste per run. For most things, it is a completely useless number.


The Math (Run away! Run Away!)
Base Time * Time Waste / (1 + PE) < 1 second
Base Time * 0.25 / (1 + PE) < 1
Base Time * 0.25 < (1 + PE)
Base Time * 0.25 - 1 < PE
PE > Base Time * 0.25 - 1

Since we want PE to be an integer:
PE = FLOOR(Base Time * 0.25)

Or for easier in-game math:
PE = Base Time * 0.25
PE = (Production time on PE 0 BPO / 1.25) * 0.25
PE = FLOOR(Production time on PE 0 BPO / 5)

Either I suddenly forgot math, or there is something that doesn't make sense there...

Lets pick Antimatter Charge L:

Manufacturing Time = 5 minutes = 300 seconds

Base Time = 300 seconds / (1 + 0.25) = 240 seconds

Production Time = 240 seconds * (1 + 0.25 / (1 + 60)) * (1 - 5 * 0.04)
Production Time = 240 seconds * (1.25 / 61) * (1 - 0.2)
Production Time = 240 seconds * 0.02 * 0.8
Production Time = 3,84 seconds?

The part in bold simply can't be right.
Edit: I suddently figured out that it is 1 + (0.25 / 61), I forgot that these were tricky... Going to do it again.



Fuel Blocks have a Waste Factor of 0.05 while most other BPOs got a Waste Factor of 0.10. I'm pretty sure that Waste Factor should be included somewhere in the formula. Gang Assist Modules BPOs also seems to have a 0.05 Waste Factor. You could try to play with formulas with these, too, whatever it is they should have it in common.




Surely I know it because I linked it in my original Post. And I said than that DB values don't match Chruker ones, that seems to be the most accurate ones.

This Thread now officially makes me want to quit Manufacturing and shout "Get A Life !" or poke my eyes out. Not sure which is better.

A Thread which you didn't read, indeed.

I stop at PE 50 on my ships, other than capitals which I stop at 2, which takes about 104 days in a POS lab!

It seems that in the case of Crystalline Carbonide Armor Plate and I assume the other armor plates neither games.chruker.dk or zofu.no-ip.de/bpo is accurate. The PE is listed at 10 and 5 respectively yet on what should be a perfect 15 day run there is a 3h 30m difference between PE115 and PE20 and even then the PE115 blueprint is about 30 minutes off what it should be.


EDIT: Actually I think all construction components are off, especially the reactor units.