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The Hypocrisy of High Sec

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Shiroh Yatamii
Alexylva Paradox
#141 - 2012-10-31 15:52:15 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:

PvPers do get one reward that industrialists do not get: the Adrenaline Rush. For them it feels good. For the typical industrialist the stress involved in PvP combat is just a pile of stress without any euphoria, and maybe with a feeling of being drained.


Absolutely. Getting high off PvP massively outweighs the build timer on yet another Dominix being shipped to Jita. Seriously, hisec missions make me want to gouge my eyes out or fall asleep. That anyone can handle that level of boredom is amazing. Props to the hisec industrialists for tanking one thing I never will be able to: boredom.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2012-10-31 15:55:16 UTC
Shiroh Yatamii wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:

PvPers do get one reward that industrialists do not get: the Adrenaline Rush. For them it feels good. For the typical industrialist the stress involved in PvP combat is just a pile of stress without any euphoria, and maybe with a feeling of being drained.


Absolutely. Getting high off PvP massively outweighs the build timer on yet another Dominix being shipped to Jita. Seriously, hisec missions make me want to gouge my eyes out or fall asleep. That anyone can handle that level of boredom is amazing. Props to the hisec industrialists for tanking one thing I never will be able to: boredom.

It's easy, actually. Watch movies or tv-series, read books, play chess, glue together a model airplane/car etc. It's not like you have to pay attention to anything else in-game anyways. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Killian Redbeard
Ironhand Research and Industrial Corp
#143 - 2012-10-31 16:00:05 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Think of it this way then; if the pubbies did suddenly get ousted and you all took over...would you really rather be mining and manufacturing than shooting? You'd become the same carebears, with less people, in an empty dead game...is that what you want? If the majority anti-pvp PVE'ers suddenly up and left manufacturing, would you really be willing to all pick up the mantle?

No. **** mining forever.

The thing about getting carebears into nullsec is actually because chances are it'd give them an incentive to stick with the game for longer. I mean, what would you have preferred, to sit in hisec and mine, and just press a button every few minutes and docking up every 45 minutes or whatever, haul the refined minerals to jita and rince repeat, or would you want to read a battlereport and see ships which you've helped build be used to defend your space, and feel like you've actually contributed to something greater than just your own wallet?


I will admit I am a Hi-sec dweller. 4+years in the game. Just this year I got into invention and research. I have not started manufacturing but need to mine ice to create fuel blocks for the POS. Roughly I spend 7-10 hours a week in game just to mine the ice and do PI to make the fuel blocks so I can keep the POS running.

I disagree that getting me into nullsec would keep me in the game longer. Now I understand there is more money to be made in null from manufacturing but I am not ready to make the jump to null. Money is also not my goal but I would like to have enough money to follow the cardinal rule of EVE. "Fly only what you can afford to lose". The other problem is finding the correct corp/alliance that matches with my personality and play style and playing time.

I love the concept of Empire Building in Null Sec. I also love the concept of Faction Warfare but Wormholes actually has more incentive to go to than either low-sec or null-sec But for now Nerf Mining, Nerf Industry, Nerf Missioning, I will probably still be in hi-sec playing this game.

Low-sec and Null-sec need some much needed love but without nerfing Hi-Sec.
Killian Redbeard
Ironhand Research and Industrial Corp
#144 - 2012-10-31 16:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Killian Redbeard
Geligdio Khan wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
If more Ores were to be found only in low-sec. The price for those ores would skyrocket., that in itse;f would likely be a good thing as there is for too much easy money sloshing around in the game.

Personally I would NEVER take a mining barge into low-sec, no matter how valuable the ores to be found there. The risk is just too high. It will NEVER be worth the risk.

This is a situation created by the residents of low-sec, they only have themselves to blame.




Really, never? What if you could make 1 billion ISK per hour in a 20 mill retreiver?

This scenario is obviously ridiculous, but I highly doubt that you would "NEVER" go there.



I would never go mine solo. Now if you had a mining fleet and also a fleet guarding them I might go. But my question would be: what PVP'er is going to sit in the guarding fleet watching miners mine?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2012-10-31 16:08:49 UTC
Killian Redbeard wrote:
I would never go mine solo. Now if you had a mining fleet and also a fleet guarding them I might go. But my question would be: what PVP'er is going to sit in the guarding fleet watching miners mine?

Nobody, because it would be more or less a worthless activity. Mining barges etc either get the **** out whenever there's something even remotely hostile in the area, or they go pop. If anything, there could be a home defense fleet at the ready, but keeping a fleet in a system for hours upon hours just in case someone decides to saunter through is dumb.

Actually, what you could do is combine the two activities, so you'd have some people mining and some people running anoms while they wait for something to happen, that way both parties win.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#146 - 2012-10-31 16:10:40 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Killian Redbeard wrote:
I would never go mine solo. Now if you had a mining fleet and also a fleet guarding them I might go. But my question would be: what PVP'er is going to sit in the guarding fleet watching miners mine?

Nobody, because it would be more or less a worthless activity. Mining barges etc either get the **** out whenever there's something even remotely hostile in the area, or they go pop. If anything, there could be a home defense fleet at the ready, but keeping a fleet in a system for hours upon hours just in case someone decides to saunter through is dumb.

Actually, what you could do is combine the two activities, so you'd have some people mining and some people running anoms while they wait for something to happen, that way both parties win.




THIS^ right there ^

is why Local should be removed in 0.0 space.


Think of all the great emergent gameplay.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2012-10-31 16:12:20 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
THIS^ right there ^

is why Local should be removed in 0.0 space.

Wrong.

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Think of all the great emergent gameplay.

Emergent gameplay? Hunting covops ships you can't know whether or not is in system?

Right.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
TharOkha
0asis Group
#148 - 2012-10-31 16:17:41 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
]
That's right folks, Guys like this came to the PVP-centric game but stay in the "safe" space because of......the chance for PVP. But it's the rest of us who are the "problem"..


Your problem is to understand and accept that PvP is NOT just pew pew. Thats why i wrote "For not inteligent ones: They want to interfere with other players but with solo gameplay"... Market is PvP, Industry is PvP, etc...

"People like this just don't really "fit" into the game, not because they aren't doing things exactly the way we are, but because they really want some other "lone wolf" style game"

i dont want it.. i have it. Because eve is sandbox game and allows me to play this style (just like yours).

Do I have problem with nullsec corps and their gameplay? - NO
Do you have problem with my freelancer gameplay? - YES

Sorry but you truly are a fasist. Blink

."... so they "squat" in EVE just to tell us how WE are somehow doing it wrong"

Im not saying that you are doing something wrong. Im tellling you that you have disorted point of view.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Geligdio Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2012-10-31 16:18:16 UTC
Killian Redbeard wrote:
Geligdio Khan wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
If more Ores were to be found only in low-sec. The price for those ores would skyrocket., that in itse;f would likely be a good thing as there is for too much easy money sloshing around in the game.

Personally I would NEVER take a mining barge into low-sec, no matter how valuable the ores to be found there. The risk is just too high. It will NEVER be worth the risk.

This is a situation created by the residents of low-sec, they only have themselves to blame.




Really, never? What if you could make 1 billion ISK per hour in a 20 mill retreiver?

This scenario is obviously ridiculous, but I highly doubt that you would "NEVER" go there.



I would never go mine solo. Now if you had a mining fleet and also a fleet guarding them I might go. But my question would be: what PVP'er is going to sit in the guarding fleet watching miners mine?


Dude I will totally take that job, scouting out a route, escorting a mining fleet, posting scouts, watching local, chatting together as a fleet while we all make money. Wondering if we can fight off the oncoming pirates or we have to run to a safe.

This sounds wayyy more fun than bubble camping and that's a PVP classic.

Thanks
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#150 - 2012-10-31 16:19:21 UTC
Killian Redbeard wrote:
Now I understand there is more money to be made in null from manufacturing but I am not ready to make the jump to null. .

When in the world did this happen?

You do realize that not everyone in null builds capital and supercapital ships, right?

You can't make more manufacturing in an area where you're drastically limitted by the number of people who are available to buy your stuff, esepcially when you've got to Q a production slot because they're all taken, it's not like high sec with thousands of stations at your disposal, and potentially hundreds of thousands of people to buy your crap.

Selling one thing for 1 one isk doesn't make you nearly as much as selling 100 things at .5 isk. That's one of the biggest diffences between null and high. You can sell in bulk at near what it cost to build and make more than I can selling at higher margins because I don't sell nearly as much as gets sold in high sec.

Nevermind the fact that I have to import most of the stuff required to build T2 goods, which makes my T2 have a higher final price than what comes out of high, and therefore, in some situation, impossible to sell in null if I build it.


Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#151 - 2012-10-31 16:26:55 UTC
So you really don't know how to use the quote function huh "TharOkha"?


TharOkha wrote:

Your problem is to understand and accept that PvP is NOT just pew pew. Thats why i wrote "For not inteligent ones: They want to interfere with other players but with solo gameplay"... Market is PvP, Industry is PvP, etc...


And who said pew pew was the only form of pvp. Why don't you quote exactly where I said that.

Quote:

i dont want it.. i have it. Because eve is sandbox game and allows me to play this style (just like yours).


yea, you can play "solo" in EVE, you bet. I can walk across the moon without a space suit, ding so wouldn't be the smartest thing to do lol.

Yet if I choose to do that (naked moon walking lol), Last thing i'd do is complain about the CONSEQUENCES of my CHOICE.

this is what the "solo" carebear does, chooses to play a multiplayer solo, ends up with zero support when more aggressive people or groups do things (like James 315, like the Goons) then complain to ccp to make it stop. THAT's what we hate about them, if you choose to play a multiplayer game solo, don't complain when folks who actually talk to other folks gang up and gank you lol.

Quote:

Do I have problem with nullsec corps and their gameplay? - NO
Do you have problem with my freelancer gameplay? - YES


This is idiotic,, it's the same old "oh you want me to play your way" dodge. No one cares how you play, we're pointing out that you are choosing to play the game "wrong" and should accept the inevitable consequences of that choice (preferably in silence).



Quote:

."... so they "squat" in EVE just to tell us how WE are somehow doing it wrong"

Im not saying that you are doing something wrong. Im tellling you that you have disorted point of view.


Well, im telling you you're doing it wrong lol
Killian Redbeard
Ironhand Research and Industrial Corp
#152 - 2012-10-31 16:33:10 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Killian Redbeard wrote:
Now I understand there is more money to be made in null from manufacturing but I am not ready to make the jump to null. .

When in the world did this happen?

You do realize that not everyone in null builds capital and supercapital ships, right?

You can't make more manufacturing in an area where you're drastically limitted by the number of people who are available to buy your stuff, esepcially when you've got to Q a production slot because they're all taken, it's not like high sec with thousands of stations at your disposal, and potentially hundreds of thousands of people to buy your crap.

Selling one thing for 1 one isk doesn't make you nearly as much as selling 100 things at .5 isk. That's one of the biggest diffences between null and high. You can sell in bulk at near what it cost to build and make more than I can selling at higher margins because I don't sell nearly as much as gets sold in high sec.

Nevermind the fact that I have to import most of the stuff required to build T2 goods, which makes my T2 have a higher final price than what comes out of high, and therefore, in some situation, impossible to sell in null if I build it.




Sorry my fault. You are correct on manufacturing. Should I have have just left it that there is more money to be made in null than hi-sec not specifying how? I don't play in low or null so I don't know what money can be made there. From what I read in the forums I should move there because there is more reward for the risk. I assume reward meaning, isk.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#153 - 2012-10-31 16:33:21 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

It has been shown, repeatedly, that players who do join up with a corp, with actual people, and make friends with them, last longer in EVE .


Happily soloing since 2007.... Your welcome... ButI agree. If you do only PvE the game just becomes boring. But im not PvEing, im soloing.

"than if they just fap around and do mining, missionrunning etc all day long all on their own"
because EVE, if you look at it as a pure singleplayer game, is ****. It's absolute ****, its only redeeming feature is the social aspect of it.
And honestly, if people just want to play a SP space game, they'd be much, much better off buying X3 and playing that.

Learn some differences between single player game an solo gameplay in MMO Blink I do not mine or run l4s (they are boring i agree). i just play solo and interact with other players.


You're free to play as a solo player if you absolutely want, but trust me on this, unless you're an utterly asocial guy, you'll find that playing in player corps working towards an actual goal will elevate your gameplay experience a ton.

So you think that i do not have any friends in EvE? Or being in a corp is the only solution to have some of them?

But if you are a completely asocial guy, fire up X3 and you'll have a better gameplay experience, and it'll cost you less. vOv

You realy need to learn difference between SinglePlayer and solo gameplay in MMO.

Yes, yes, we shoot absolutely everyone who go to nullsec who even smell like they're from hisec. Roll

Im not pure hisec guy. I occasionaly go ninja rat to null and believe me 80% of player I encountered, wanted to kill me. (Although there are some null regions with friendly players)

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#154 - 2012-10-31 16:53:15 UTC
Killian Redbeard wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Killian Redbeard wrote:
Now I understand there is more money to be made in null from manufacturing but I am not ready to make the jump to null. .

When in the world did this happen?

You do realize that not everyone in null builds capital and supercapital ships, right?

You can't make more manufacturing in an area where you're drastically limitted by the number of people who are available to buy your stuff, esepcially when you've got to Q a production slot because they're all taken, it's not like high sec with thousands of stations at your disposal, and potentially hundreds of thousands of people to buy your crap.

Selling one thing for 1 one isk doesn't make you nearly as much as selling 100 things at .5 isk. That's one of the biggest diffences between null and high. You can sell in bulk at near what it cost to build and make more than I can selling at higher margins because I don't sell nearly as much as gets sold in high sec.

Nevermind the fact that I have to import most of the stuff required to build T2 goods, which makes my T2 have a higher final price than what comes out of high, and therefore, in some situation, impossible to sell in null if I build it.




Sorry my fault. You are correct on manufacturing. Should I have have just left it that there is more money to be made in null than hi-sec not specifying how? I don't play in low or null so I don't know what money can be made there. From what I read in the forums I should move there because there is more reward for the risk. I assume reward meaning, isk.




If you're a PvEer you can make more "per mission" or "per rat", but you can still make more in high sec doing PvE with missions that pay a little less, due to the ability to do them pretty much uninterupted. Ratting in high sec is obviously not making anyone money.

There are fewer ways, overall, for the rank and file guy in null sec to make more ISK than you can in high. If you're goal is to just farm ISK, your'e better off staying in high sec, and that's the problem a lot of guys have. What we can accomplish in this much "riskier" parts of EVE aren't exactly proportionate to that risk as compared to the safety of high sec and what you can make.

High sec is all advantage and benefit, null is....null. This is what we keep asking CCP to correct, there's no reason to come here if you don't want to pvp or build caps and super caps (which is a royal pain in the ass in itself). A lot of people in high sec, who aren't really familliar with living in null, don't seem to get it.

And with the way mechanics are set up, I don't see it being possible to "just buff null", high sec needs some nerfs. You can't make it cheaper to manufacture here without making it more expensive in null. Manufacturing costs aren't significant enough to "just make it cheaper" in null, it's not possible to do that without touching high sec.

And everytime someone suggests making it more expensive to build in high sec, high sec people rage against it; yet not one person ever explains WHY it would be bad for you guys to have higher prices on manufatured goods. High sec players act like people can't afford higher prices, in the mean time those same people are spending near 600m on a plex. WTF.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#155 - 2012-10-31 16:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Jenn aSide wrote:
So you really don't know how to use the quote function huh "TharOkha"? .


I know how-to. But i prefer italic and underline since there are limitation of maximum quotations per post Blink

"....And who said pew pew was the only form of pvp. Why don't you quote exactly where I said that...."

You didnt say exactly that but this sentence "Guys like this came to the PVP-centric game but stay in the "safe" space because of......the chance for PVP" clearly shows that "chance for PVP" is only in unsecured space... thus pew pew.

this is what the "solo" carebear does, chooses to play a multiplayer solo, ends up with zero support when more aggressive people or groups do things (like James 315, like the Goons) then complain to ccp to make it stop.

Im not complaining..

THAT's what we hate about them, if you choose to play a multiplayer game solo, don't complain when folks who actually talk to other folks gang up and gank you lol.

Again. Im not the one complaining. I play solo because i know how to play solo. I can survive solo, I can pass gatecamps solo. Im perfectly fine with this game and i enjoy it (aka i have fun). I have many friends ingame, we talk, we socialize, we have our own chanels and occasionaly we help each other with some minor issues but all in all we keeping our own business. What´s wrong with this kind of gameplay?

Then you wrote: "This is idiotic,, it's the same old "oh you want me to play your way" dodge"

And after that you wrote: No one cares how you play, we're pointing out that you are choosing to play the game "wrong"

And in the end:

ME: Im not saying that you are doing something wrong. Im tellling you that you have disorted point of view

YOU:Well, im telling you you're doing it wrong lol


!!!! STOP TELLING TO PLAYERS WHAT STYLE OF GAMEPLAY IS WRONG OR RIGHT !!!

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#156 - 2012-10-31 16:56:20 UTC
TharOkha wrote:


Im not pure hisec guy. I occasionaly go ninja rat to null and believe me 80% of player I encountered, wanted to kill me. (Although there are some null regions with friendly players)

Did you even think about that?

You're NINJA RATTING in somene elses space, and then go on to make a statement about them blowing you up.

If you're NINJA ratting, you're stealing.

In null, people make a living on rats. People issue ratting rights. You're complaining about going into someone elses space and taking what they use to earn ISK there and getting blown up in the process.

You have no right to complain abut that, and don't say you're not because that's exactly what you've been doing.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#157 - 2012-10-31 17:23:51 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
TharOkha wrote:


Your problem is to understand and accept that PvP is NOT just pew pew. Thats why i wrote "For not inteligent ones: They want to interfere with other players but with solo gameplay"... Market is PvP, Industry is PvP, etc...

"People like this just don't really "fit" into the game, not because they aren't doing things exactly the way we are, but because they really want some other "lone wolf" style game"

i dont want it.. i have it. Because eve is sandbox game and allows me to play this style (just like yours).

Do I have problem with nullsec corps and their gameplay? - NO
Do you have problem with my freelancer gameplay? - YES

Sorry but you truly are a fasist. Blink

."... so they "squat" in EVE just to tell us how WE are somehow doing it wrong"

Im not saying that you are doing something wrong. Im tellling you that you have disorted point of view.


Thier 'squating' is just a whiney vomiting forth of ways to nerf everything else but thier own wayof playing the game Roll NULL SECcers here in the forums are way worse then the HI SEC whiners not only in numbers but also in the fact that someone whom in thier minds are such 'leet PvPers sure sound like abunch of spoiled bullies whom deserve no special right they tear so much up for.
Best tears are ganker tears & they wAnt to dry up that source with thier whiney nerf HI Sec posts... THEY ARE THE TRUE HYPOCRITS!
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Killian Redbeard
Ironhand Research and Industrial Corp
#158 - 2012-10-31 17:24:38 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


And everytime someone suggests making it more expensive to build in high sec, high sec people rage against it; yet not one person ever explains WHY it would be bad for you guys to have higher prices on manufatured goods. High sec players act like people can't afford higher prices, in the mean time those same people are spending near 600m on a plex. WTF.


I have no problem with raising the manufacturing cost in hi-sec. I also have no problem with making so that refining in hi-sec is not 100%. It makes no sense to me why null can not refine at 100%.

I was against the mining barge and exhumer changes. I had no issues prior to the change. I have no problem with gankers or bumpers. Its what they enjoy. I have learned to adapt to these game styles.

I am against changing the mineral layout in hi-sec. Now, I would accept that mining belts move systems. I should have to scan down and move systems to mine.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#159 - 2012-10-31 17:26:07 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

You're NINJA RATTING in somene elses space, and then go on to make a statement about them blowing you up. ....
You have no right to complain abut that, and don't say you're not because that's exactly what you've been doing.


If someone catching me because i stealing their rats... yes i understand.. you just protecting your teritory
If someone just passing by in a shuttle or pod and being killed by mighty gatecamp....somehow i cannot see any purpose.. And im not talking about passing your teritory. Im talking about NPC null or ordinary lowsec. Those guys sitting on gatecamp are not there to warmly welcome you. They are just sitting there and want to shoot anything that moves no matter if it is a shuttle or Titan (i know, you cannot gatejump with it) Actualy i dont see how this "activity" is more "fun" than sitting on belts and ganking veldspar- but as i said... Its their gameplay i have no problem with it. Just dont be so suprised why most of newplayers avoiding low/null (not me).

Again im not complaining. This is just my point of view of null sec players and their "gheto" mentality. Blink

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#160 - 2012-10-31 17:31:54 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
So you really don't know how to use the quote function huh "TharOkha"? .


I know how-to. But i prefer italic and underline since there are limitation of maximum quotation per post Blink



That really says everything.

You KNOW how to do it "right" ie the way the people who set up the forums intended you to and the way that makes reading replies easier for others, but you choose to do it in a more complicated way because that's what you prefer. I really don't care how you do it, but if your going to do something, you must also accept that other people will comment on what you do, even calling ti stupid (and yes, your posting reply style is stupid).

But the high sec only carebears that are the focus of many posts here and many in-game actions like what James and the goons are doing DON'T accept the consequences of their actions and attitudes (or the consequences of their CHOICE to play a multiplayer game where undocking in consenting to get pew pew'd).

That really is for me the source of my dislike. Do things as you please, but don't complain when you find yourself suffering the consequences of playing the game wrong lol.