Warfare & Tactics

from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/10/faction-warfare-fixing-minmataramarr.html

One of the longstanding problems with the Minmatar/Amarr warzone is the geography. The Amarr warzone (Devoid and The Bleak Lands) is quick and simple to traverse. It's very circular in nature with multiple paths between systems available. The Minmatar warzone (Heimatar and Metropolis), other than the Dal-Amamake-Auga-Siseide loop, consists of a single pipe. The only access to the majority of the warzone, through a single chokepoint at Hofjaldgund. A number of cul-de-sacs from this pipe. It's a very difficult section of the warzone to attack, while being exceptionally easy for the Minmatar to defend. Other than the occasional roam, the Amarr generally ignore the majority of the Minmatar warzone.

The following map is the current state of the Minmatar-Amarr warzone geography.

IMAGE: http://i.imgur.com/Kj57r.png

The Minmatar have more systems under their control by default. I'm not overly concerned about this particular inequity. The larger problem is the geography itself. The difficulty of waging war within the Minmatar regions versus the Amarr regions.

What needs to be accomplished is broadening the Minmatar warzone, creating more stargate connections to allow for multiple points of ingress (or egress, as the case may be) into Metropolis in particular. This eliminates Hofjaldgund as a chokepoint, and opens up Minmatar systems to same level of access as systems in the Amarr regions.

I've added four new systems connections in the map below, coloured green.

IMAGE: http://i.imgur.com/xENQi.png

Now, I don't suggest that this is the solution. It's a possible solution, but may have problems of its own. I do offer it up as a starting point of discussion.

Apparently CCP approached Hans, back at the CSM Summit, with questions about the warzone, what might be done to fix it. They were more than willing to look at ways to fix the geography. Hans' response, according to the Hans Visits Fweddit discussion, was to ignore the request, because no Amarr had come to him specifically to discuss the issue or offer up changes that might work.

Hans wonders why he's called out for his Minmatar bias at times. He's stated that he himself knows the Minmatar-Amarr geography to be problematic, but he wasn't about to offer up any solutions of his own accord. The Amarr were going to have to come to him first. What an amazing representative we elected. Why should he move forward on the issue alone, or make public appeals to the Amarr about the geography problems? He's Minmatar, the warzone inequities are to his side's advantage, after all. So, he was going to wait for the Amarr themselves to bring it up, which they never did. (I doubt any Amarr even knew it was an issue that CCP had placed upon the table, something they were willing to devote resources to fixing.) I hope that it isn't too late to fix the issue, given Hans dropping the ball in this regard.

So, before it's too late. Let's discuss the warzone. Maybe this is something that could get done for Retribution 1.2 or 1.3. Let's see if we can not push CCP towards making changes, let's as a community succeed where Hans has failed.

No. 'tis

TL;DR: I hate Eszur

ASIDE: I hate Hans

I don't know if this is just me... but whenever I read something written by Poetic I can't help but hear an uptight, shrill little girl who has been starved of attention.

Instead of complaining about the war zone, try taking it by using that 20+ man Blackbird and Griffin Fweddit fleet (instead of spamming local).

Susan? I don't talk about her that often. I mostly just mock her, because it's fun. (She had nothing to do with my joining AUTOZ.)

Hans. He's failing as an FW representative. Plain and simple. He works hard. No doubt. But only on issues he cherry-picks. And often on the wrong fights. Dude is more politician than advocate.

But I don't hate Hans. Mostly disappointed. And wishing we had a representative with more backbone.

I doubt it.

The current plan is to throw up another viable FW candidate, if Hans decides to run again. Split the vote. The point to keep Hans out of CSM8, if possible. There'll be no FW focus next year anyhow, so no real need to have Hans representing anything.

My hope is that Goonswarm takes the chair next year, returning backbone to the CSM. It is in zero supply this year.

Anyhow, this is an Amarr/Minnie warzone discussion. And you're Gallente.

Were you always like this Poetic??


Also see Pinky Feldmans suggestions.

Why do you guys feel like you're still losing? You have T2 now and you own about 20+ systems. These are systems that are stable and that allows you guys to move into w/o fear of being farmed to death. I know it's not everything but I sure don't think you guys are 'losing'.

I would like to see you guys get as many systems as we do up here in Gal/Cal space. But I don't see that happening so yes, CCP should break those chokepoints up.

Susan only trolls because she knows she can rile you guys up. And it works. And she continues to laugh at you guys while you continue to read her blogs thus continuing the cycle.

I still say they should combine the miltias and make one warzone. Now the warzone is 171 systems or whatever. CalAmarri vs Mingallentar.

This would make a great story, if it weren't for the fact that I've already discussed map changes with Amarr players and made recommendations to CCP. Poe's once again several months late to the party and really testing the boundaries with what players will believe without bothering to fact check any of his bullshit.

As I mentioned in the recording Poe is using as "evidence", Pinky Feldman gave me these maps when we discussed this back in September:

http://i.imgur.com/aM9Ir.jpg

Pinky and I talked not only about specific map changes, but also about my interest in CCP hosting a Live Event to kickoff the opening of these gates. Pinky sent his maps to CCP Fozzie (and I followed up with Fozzie on Skype to be sure he had them), Fozzie liked what he saw but cautioned that this would likely have to come in a 1.1 or 1.2 release. It's been clear from the beginning that CCP is interested in opening up the map between the Amarr and Minmatar territories, and they have all the resources they need from players to design these changes.

Pinky however, was not the first to bring up the map - other Amarrians had also contacted me with information that I've passed on to CCP.

I'll be honest here - I did make one mistake in my Fweddit talk. I said that I didn't have an answer to give to CCP at the summit when they asked about the changing the map. This is true, I didn't go into the summit with map changes on my agenda - because I was preoccupied with addressing the concerns that I was hearing about on a daily basis at the time. My inaccuracy though in talking to Fweddit was that I did actually have information about specific map changes at the time of the summit - I ran a quick forum search and it turns out that I had already given them this information before the summit even took place.

Bottom line is, the issue was never ignored, and in fact the need to circumvent the Hof pipe was a suggestion I forwarded to the developers in April. It's been discussed since than, CCP has what they need to work on this, and has for some time. The only reason it's not on the list for Retribution is a shortage of resources, not in CCP's lack of information or unwillingness to address this. This is by far the most ridiculously dishonest post Poetic has made to date.

Here is the copypasta from the internal CCP forums (which doesn't break NDA since its my own words):

#57 Posted: 2012.04.20 19:39 | Report | Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
I also wanted to link to this post, a set of excellent concerns from the community regarding docking rights, and the territory map. I think their request for knowing about this early enough to move everything they own around is a fair one and should be clarified publicly as soon as the matter is decided upon.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1162642#post1162642

Cearain wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
On the subject of maps, you really should get CCP thinking about the Amarr-Minmatar system layout Hans.

There are too many chokepoints at the moment!

Some of the chokepoint gates are regional gates, and very hard to camp successfully; these ones don't need changing.

e.g. Kourmonen - Auga, Vard - Ezzara, Hofjaldgund - Dal,

However, there are some other non-regional gates that totally dictate movement across the whole zone.

Hofjaldgund - Eszur and Frerstorn - Ardar are the main cuplrits.

On this point I think its pretty clear that the minmatar will have some advantage if Docking rights are really taken away if a system is occupied by the enemy.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Amarr_VS_Minmatar#sec

Minmatar will always have 2 key staging points that Amarr will never be able to do anything about. Specifically Egghelende which means minmatar will alway be past the hofjalgund choke point. And Gratesier which means they will always be able to base right in our back yard.

Unless CCP intended to specifically give minmatar an advantage these maps were not designed with the idea that you would entirely lose docking rights if a system was taken.

Edit: Actually I guess its not so bad since we have akkio in Minmatar's back yard. But all the same It would be more even if we had a choke point past the hofjalgund chokepoint or at least one into that dal-vard-siseide cluster.


When I made this post I was thinking that we would not be able to dock in systems controled by the other race that were not part of the faction war front. I think I was wrong on this but it would be nice to know for sure.

For example will an amarr fw pilot be able to dock in Rens? Dodixie? Egghelende (lows sec system that is part of gallente space and not in either faction war front)? Gultratren (low sec minmatar system not part of fw space.)

I assume Amarr will not be able to dock anywhere caldari cant dock within gallente amarr faction war space.

If this change is going through I have lots of stuff to move so if ccp could let us know it would be nice.

Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.

do you live under a rock?