EVE General Discussion

So we could probably put more limit on what can be done in high. The most bulk job in high as they represent the fact you could get rifle ammo produced elsewhere if you could but more technical project would require to be build "at home" in null because you would not contract foreigner to built your new secret technology maybe. Lets say we drop ship production all the way to battleship only being produced in null. Would that appear to be a step in the right direction for you?

Not in the least.

Higher prices in high sec would.


PS: We don't build all of our weaons in the US, beleive it or not we also ship that manufacturing where it's cheaper. We develop the technology at home, but that doens't mean we build it all here.

The problem with null vs hisec manufacturing isn't one of restrictions, but one of economics and availability.

Hisec has the ability to create 1 maelstrom for 2k or less in manufacturing costs, or I could make enough stuff to take up a full slot for 30 full days, and it'll still cost me 237157,34 isk. That's a lot of ships for not a lot of money.

Hisec has more manufacturing capacity in some singular systems than deklein, a fairly well-developed region in null. In fact, it has been calculated that deklein can't manufacture enough t2 ammo pr day to feed a full maelstrom fleet.

Hisec can refine perfectly, which means it makes sense to compress your ore and ship to hisec, refine, and sell in Jita where there's actual volume, the instant anyone starts talking about adding even 0.5% or 1% refinery taxes (whereever the cutoff point was, I forget), and because the manufacturing costs are so low, the threshold for manufacturing things in hisec and shipping it out to nullsec is equally low. All of this means there's nobody living in nullsec, which means alliances can't finance themselves from the bottom up, which means there's no point in actually fighting for space if there's even a hint of you losing. And since there's no point in actually living in nullsec, this also means there's fewer people which can be ganked for tears by roaming gangs, which means more people will end up going "hm, I see that hisec has a lot of people who think hisec is perfectly safe, I bet I can get a lot of tears out of them".

Which in turn will end up with CCP taking the final step in the expansion after Retribution, and releasing EVE Online: Trammel.

Simple steps to fix null:

New POS structure: advanced small ship assembly array II (0.7 ME only anchorable in null) (Do this for every advanced array)
New POS structure: advanced ammunition array (0.5 ME only anchorable in null) (i'm not sure what the ME is on regular ammo arrays, but make it better than that, funny because i have an ammo array in game)
New POS structure: building assembly array (0.7 ME only anchorable in null. Used to build POS structures and the like that can currently only be built in station slots)
New capital(s) and/or supercapital(s) that have a mining yield that is much much better than any exhumer
Scale refine rates based on sov. Giving a noticeable advantage on fully upgrades systems and being equal to hi-sec on systems that are at the lowest sov level (I don't know very much about sov i will confess, my point here is that having better sov=better refine)
I can think of more things, but since they wont' be implemented i'm not going to bother to keep typing them out.
EDIT: Also, fix Null manufacture slots, to be equal to or better than hi-sec.

These are just examples to show that things can be done for null-sec that would greatly improve industrial activites in null

Nerfs to hi-sec:

None necessary, provided that null is buffed to provide incentive to live there.

Changes to low-sec:

Pointless, unless it is buffed to be better than null, people will just move to null since low-sec and industry is a fool's game.

Now if CCP took this type of approach, they could not only make null-sec more attractive space to hold as well as potentially attracting people to do industry there, they would also be introducing new content to the game. This is much better imo than gimping hi-sec so that nullbears can make more iskies.

Also, make JF's consume much more fuel, thus making trips more expensive. This would increase the costs or imports/exports making both hi-sec and null-sec happy since station traders won't be able to gouge manufacturers markets as much.

So tell me why again that some of the null-sec population keeps asking for hi-sec to be nerfed?

Seems to me they'd rather gimp the competition than actually have space that is valuable and worth fighting over.

Anything which gives anything better than 1.0 ME will be used to spawn minerals out of thin air. This is bad.

Honestly... this just sounds like someone sitting out in nul/low sec with a criminal security rating just waiting for some poor noob miner to pop by but isn't happy with his killboard.

While I'm sure there are thousands of changes that could be made to the game to personally benefit you, how many players is this going to affect? How is this a productive change for everyone as a whole?

Seriously? Even the pyerite?


Let's think about the lore for a minute, too. I've seen all kinds of complaints about how nul isn't productive enough, or the market is lousy, etc etc.... there's a reason for that - back in civilisation (ie high sec) those things have been well established by the fact that a civilisation exists. You're out in what is, essentially, "wildspace". You want a supply line? Set one up before you go, it's part of preparing to move away from civilisation.

If I'm living in a city, like Brisbane in Australia, and I decide to move to a shack in the desert.... don't you think I'm going to CHECK what sort of supplies I'm going to have out there? Where will I get my water? Food? Internet? I have to make sure I'm moving somewhere where I can be sure I have all my supplies ready to go.

Now, I understand your concerns about "who's taking the risk and who isn't", but you seem to be assuming that PvP players are taking some kind of risk - no, you're not, you're CHOOSING to do PvP, just like many players choose NOT to do PvP. There are many players in high-sec that are happy to run missions, and the market is alive with cheap met 0 mods because noobs can't afford anything else.

Were you thinking of the new players? Or just yourself? There are a myriad of things to consider that you're just not considering, just thinking of yourself and what you can get out of it. That's fine, but that's something you get to sort out in-game. Hell, you want mins in low and nul sec? I'll run em out there myself on a private contract provided I've got some insurance against getting blown up by some belligerent trigger-happy undesirable along the way. I don't mind losing a ship, but if I lose one running mins for someone where there ain't no CONCORD, I want some insurance, and not just the lousy in-game ship insurance you get.

There are other solutions to your problems as well. You just got to think of them, instead of thinking of ways to change the game to suit your own personal preferences. I can think of a thousand ways to change the game to suit me, and nobody else, and anyone can.

High sec is easy because... wait for it... IT'S HIGH SEC. It's established, "civilised" space. Sure, you can fight wars there - in fact, you could always just wardec a high-sec mining corp and ransom them for their ore... I'm not sure how all that works exactly, as I stated I'm relatively new to the experience. But the way I see it, living in nul is not supposed to be EASY, it's supposed to be a challenge, just like moving away from a big city to live in the middle of the desert.

You take away the challenge, and then you remove the main appeal of nul altogether and defeat the purpose of even having a nul.

yeah didn't think about that.

Either way though they are just examples, albeit some aren't very good examples as you pointed out. I do however still think that null should be buffed to deal with this. Perhaps a nerf to high sec is needed though the more I think about it. Not a massive nerf or a nerf to generally everything, but maybe a nerf to t2 production or something along those lines.

I really think that there shoudl be an advantage to producing stuff in a POS, specifically a pos that isn't in high-sec, since POS's can be attacked where stations cannot.

I'd advocate a reduction in mineral output high enough to increase the price of high sec minerals, and increased taxes across the board in high sec.

Then if the higher low end mineral costs were effecting null, I'd increase the availability of low ends in null slightly.

I honestly beleive that one of the biggest problems with null is the low prices in high. If the prices in high sec were higher it wouldn't be more worthwhile to bild in null and more corps would put more effort into developing an industry here. As it is it's simply affordable to ignore developing null sec industry when you can just import everything from high that's purchased at near production costs.

Also fix the meta modules that have T2 stats with T1 skill prereqs, by either reducing the stat bonuses on those items or severely reducing their drop rates.

I probably should have stated my question alittle more clearly.

What I meant by building something was in teh nature of manufacturing something. I wasn't trying to deny the fact that actual buildings and other infrastructure was being built to provide services. I was more or less pointing out that a company like general dynamics wouldn't be very interested in setting up a factory in Iraq.

I'm not sure how the market would react to the idea of significant differences in market taxes based on sec status. that does seem rather powerblock friendly though as the only entities which can readily use secure markets without tax penalties are those with some reasonable control of the surrounding space. Lesser entities without secure markets and those needing materials lacking in their respective regions would find themselves potentially at a further disadvantage compared to powerful entities than already is the case.