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[Updated] How to repopulate nullsec - a question for highsec/WH players (and CCP)

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xh'neivers
House of Carrikk
#81 - 2011-10-19 13:39:24 UTC
I've been playing the game for a long time now (my original character is a '03) and I've lived in 0.0 and Empire - but mostly Empire.

Many things I disliked about 0.0 and many things I liked. Getting hotdropped by 7 Nyx while trying to establish some space for my alliance was the last attempt, and I've not been back since.

My solution: Increase the number of 0.0 systems by x 4.

Spread resources out. Make it harder for one Alliance to hold half the map. Small scale roams become the norm because there is so much space to cover. Space that allows smaller corps, alliances and even individuals to fill in the cracks.

Yeah, it would be empty for a while - like it was back in 03, 04, 05 etc. But spread it out, make resources depleteable, have more links to highsec from all directions.

Give the players back that sense of wonder, and that hope of being able to find their own little corner of space.
Sarina Berghil
New Zion Judge Advocate
#82 - 2011-10-19 13:44:04 UTC
I love Freyh's post because it really describes the essence about what I love in Eve.

You never know what is behind the next corner and what will happen. I may be on a trivial hauling run to Jita and something funny happens, or I may be doing a lowsec plex and it takes a completely unexpected turn. This is because Eve is so vast and has such a diverse population. This diversity should be encouraged and cultivated.
xynix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#83 - 2011-10-19 13:50:39 UTC  |  Edited by: xynix
Freyh wrote:
How to repopulate nullsec..

It seems to be an untold truth that nullsec should be the end goal of every player in EVE. And that its a problem if players seek to other places in the game.

This is something i dont get. I know even CCP seem to think that nullsec should be the "popular" part of the game, but i dont get why it should be like that.

Ive been in 0.0. I been in those giant fleets involving thousands of people, and ive gotten my dose of abuse from pimplesqueesing seventeen year old FC's. Ive tried to make sense out of whats going on there. Ive tried to fit in between the hordes of socalled elite 0.0 dwellers. The guys that dock up when one neutral enters local. The guys that cant figure out what "hold on gate" really means and the childish alliance chats that really cant get over the poop jokes they throw at eachother.

It just isnt fun. when im in 0.0, i cant really get myself to log on, because the game has suddenly turned in to a chore.

I was involved in killing a titan. And all i remember is that the game was so laggy i had time to get myself a cup of cofee and take a **** mid fight. I wasnt even sure that we really killed it before someone told me we did so. I dont know and dont care whos titan we killed. It was that uninteresting.

The reason it was that uninteresting, is mostly because of how anonymous you are. Yeah, i killed a titan, Im number 456 on the killmail, you see me there? Yeah, was quite a feat. Adrenaline? whats that?

And then in comparison, you can be part of a little flock, 3-4 people, they are all your friends, they know you, they know that you got a littlebit eager with your razor the other day, they know and they are still your friends. You hunt with them, you cloak up in a wormhole, probes down that little legion, you try to control the adrenaline that starts to rush trough your veins, your hands are allready shaking alittlebit when you uncloak and tackle your prey. You call in your friends and they come in their ships youve helped discussed the fitting with and you kill your target and finally you can let the adrenaline free.

That, is EVE to me. And i wont find that in 0.0. I will never populate 0.0 no matter how much cash you can make there. Maybe, ill go there if you can get some good fights with small gangs, but i doubt that will ever happen. And i will still base myself out of low or highsec.

I think its the same with alot more players. It just isnt so, that the pirates in lowsec really wants to be in 0.0 if only some thing or another would be changed there. Lowsec is their prefered playstyle, its that simple.

Highsec too is a place that i think should be left untouched. The highsec dwellers are a beautiful mix of very interesting people. Its a oasis of new and old players with varying degrees of knowledge of game mechanics. You have people that think its a good idea to take an Orca out during wartime because the war shouldnt affect them, You have the pimped out battlecruiser and the lolfit CNR's. You have gankers, wardeccers, stationhuggers canflippers..I can go on and on and i love them all.

These people should be allowed to stay in highsec and do as they allways have done.

If nullsec really is underpopulated, it might just be that the playstyle that are forced upon you when youre out there, just isnt tempting enough. Maybe people feel that there are more interesting things to do in this game than having to deal with what i consider a pretty ******** part of the playerbase.

Maybe its simply time to get over yourself, and realize that there is other parts of this game that other people find more interesting and that there isnt one reason, one problem, that you can fix and then suddenly 0.0 is filled with new faces.


My feelings exactly!
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#84 - 2011-10-19 15:11:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
First let me say people may be leaving null sec because its not as fun as other parts of the game. Although I can see why the game won't work if people are just doing things that don't involve blowing up ships its not like null sec is the only place to do this.

EVE advertises itself as a game where people just love stabbing each other in the back. But then they say hey why don't you join this alliance in null sec where you can move all your stuff, and on a whim, the leader of that alliance can kick you out and make it almost impossible for you to get you stuff out.

They love talking about how you can be dishonest and rip off your friends, yet in the next breath they also say how much they want everyone to be social, work together, and thereby trust each other. I guess I just look at this and say "yeah whatever."

Really there are no protections in game to prevent getting ripped off. If you look at big alliances they are trying to proctect themselves by doing the whole metagaming thing. Tracking out of game ip addresses and such. That’s not really something I am interested in.

If there were some way that you weren't basically neutering yourself individually when you join a null sec alliance it would be more appealing to me. In the mean time I think I will stay in low sec fw where I can get lots of small scale pvp and keep my stuff in an indestructible npc station.


Moreover, I'm not a big fan of gate and station camps. The mechanics in null sec with no gate guns and bubbles make this much easier to do.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Trainwreck McGee
Doomheim
#85 - 2011-10-19 15:16:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Trainwreck McGee
Get rid of local

Get rid of capital ships

Guarantee me small gang or solo fights

And ill join Null Sec

Since this will never happen you will never see me in Null Sec

WH for life

CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#86 - 2011-10-19 15:17:26 UTC
Remove the alliance mechanic entirely and make it every corp for themselves. Nobody wants to be a "grunt" for some self-important alliance leaders. It's just like working for the man in real life, and I daresay we all get our fill of that at work every day.
MNagy
Yo-Mama
#87 - 2011-10-19 15:25:54 UTC
1. I prefer small skirmishes more than the big fleet battles currently.

2. Get in a nice battleship or an exensive ship - head to null sec, only to get gate camped 3 jumps in through ls.

If LowSec gates and NullSec gates would work a tad differently. (kinda like wormholes do).
Instead of Gate1 in systemA Jumping you to 20km off of Gate1 in systemB, what if it hurled you through space into the system (anywhere) - technically a safe spot.

That is why I venture to LS through a wormhole - its technically safer. You stand a chance to survive with your ship instead of jumping in and being locked on by 15 ships waiting for the gate that just activated.

3. I prefer to live in a smaller corp. We trust eachother / we play together / and for the most part - your assets are secure. I dont need some little kid to tell me how to 'play' my game - nor give them some tax for playing in the system.

4. Setting up a small corp or small alliance in pointless as a big mother corp will just come around tomorrow and wipe you out.

-Perhaps a small fix for this is to put some kind of 'inflation' cost or 'corruption' cost into the game. The bigger the corp gets (or alliance), the more 'corruption/inflation' some things seem to cost.
Kinda like (Sid Meier's Civilization) did.
If a corp wants to be huge and 'own' lots of space - they can but at a certain point there will be a 'tipping point' where corruption and inflation will drain a corp / Alliance wallet.
What would this do ? You suddenly have a bunch of small alliances / corps everywhere and every batttle you go in / every wardec you go in is a fun fight. Since now there are more small corps or alliances you now have more little battles over 'space/planets' and everything else.

---
My suggestions are off the top of my head, they may not be correct but I am just trying to come up with a mini solution the the points I have stated that keep me and my corp away.

Most of us cannot play 24/7 a day so WH space makes way more sense to live in than NULL sec because you always are dealing with 'blobs' that are the same size as you.
caladoor
Universial Standard Endorsement
#88 - 2011-10-19 15:27:56 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:
Not to be flip or anything but my answer would be: "nothing."

My game is in high sec. I've been playing for three years and have had short ventures into null and low, but I found myself choosing to not play when I had time while living in those areas. I don't care for CTAs, abrasive FCs, rules about when I can and cannot do non-corp/alliance activities. I don't care for politics and peoples' hurt feelings causing me to PvP. I don't care for mandatory operations and rules about who I can and cannot sell my stuff to or buy from.

I'm comfortable in high sec. I like highsec Eve. I may try out some WH stuff, but highsec is just what I prefer. The changes that would lead me to consider null/low would break those areas for the players that like it.

I'm happy with Eve. I'm not trying to force people into high sec. Why do nullsec people feel the need to force/encourage people to play their game? If it's just a matter of too much space and/or not enough players, suggest CCP shutdown 25% of nullsec and stir things up. But I'll just move on to a different game before I'll move back out to null. That's meant in a "meh...it's just a game" kinda way...not trying to be confrontational or anything (hence my non-null personality Big smile )



QFT I do not and never will again pay to play a game where someone else gets to tell me how to spend my time playing. All thought i haven't really played much of late. I am just using plex to keep my account running in the hopes they will add some content that is for the part time High Sec player.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#89 - 2011-10-19 15:28:26 UTC
Taking on the words of the WH -dwellers, and those words of the people who have been to 0.0 and why they left, I am starting to think that perhaps we need a new kind of 0.0.

Or basically more 0.0 added that is not like the present 0.0.



New 0.0 with:

- Jump gates to systems that have ship size restrictions
- rich exploration and complexes but no moon goo and only hidden belts
- sections where there are no gates to gain entry, but reachable by finding the right wormhole.
- no local


Think of it as an in-between place between the completely unknown wormhole systems and the well-known 0.0 systems.

I would certainly go to THAT 0.0.

The one we presently have is only good for trespassing in, and watching the Jan Bradys rage in local when their bots auto-dock.



Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Trainwreck McGee
Doomheim
#90 - 2011-10-19 15:32:53 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Taking on the words of the WH -dwellers, and those words of the people who have been to 0.0 and why they left, I am starting to think that perhaps we need a new kind of 0.0.

Or basically more 0.0 added that is not like the present 0.0.



New 0.0 with:

- Jump gates to systems that have ship size restrictions
- rich exploration and complexes but no moon goo and only hidden belts
- sections where there are no gates to gain entry, but reachable by finding the right wormhole.
- no local


Think of it as an in-between place between the completely unknown wormhole systems and the well-known 0.0 systems.

I would certainly go to THAT 0.0.

The one we presently have is only good for trespassing in, and watching the Jan Bradys rage in local when their bots auto-dock.





I have always wanted more exploration based null sec where you cant "take over" space and certain sized ships cant go into space due to some physics related restriction that i am too dumb to think up lol. If this happened you would see me in null sec.

CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#91 - 2011-10-19 15:38:23 UTC
Such simple closed minds.

Like I cant just got to null to have some fun and then come back. Without joining an alliance that tells me what to do.

Oh wait, I do and can.

And while it is disguised to not be, this is a PI whine thread. Look, the tax is going from 5% to 10%. I bet the price for POS fuels went up 5% within hours of the announcement. You are already making more profit, and there are already 13 whine threads.

Classic Eve community.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Sarina Berghil
New Zion Judge Advocate
#92 - 2011-10-19 15:39:27 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Taking on the words of the WH -dwellers, and those words of the people who have been to 0.0 and why they left, I am starting to think that perhaps we need a new kind of 0.0.

Or basically more 0.0 added that is not like the present 0.0.



New 0.0 with:

- Jump gates to systems that have ship size restrictions
- rich exploration and complexes but no moon goo and only hidden belts
- sections where there are no gates to gain entry, but reachable by finding the right wormhole.
- no local


Think of it as an in-between place between the completely unknown wormhole systems and the well-known 0.0 systems.

I would certainly go to THAT 0.0.

The one we presently have is only good for trespassing in, and watching the Jan Bradys rage in local when their bots auto-dock.



I was thinking of that myself, insteading of making big changes to existing null-sec making new different null-sec would be an option.

An addition to that could be to make it possible for corps to get some kind of 'light' sovereignity, not adding jump bridges or Outposts, but simply with the benefit of doing slight upgrades to the system.
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2011-10-19 15:54:51 UTC
Freyh wrote:
ive gotten my dose of abuse from pimplesqueesing seventeen year old FC's.


you've been in Evildead's fleets too? Lol

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Ralinastrife
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2011-10-19 16:20:48 UTC
High sec you can do more and more free will..example u can venture in to low or null for pvp...u can do missions...incursions, mine, r and d stuff, set up pos, ''play the market'', scan WH, etc....

Personally only thing Null offers is more money in doing stuff....also the lawlessness of null is cool if u want absolute freedom

I like null...thats why i usually have a jumpclone in high...so when u get tired of the politics just jump back to high for a couple days run missions and chill out for a while then jump back down to null when u get bored of high
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2011-10-19 16:22:57 UTC
For me its simple. Give me back my sanctums Big smile
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2011-10-19 16:27:44 UTC
Sarina Berghil wrote:
An addition to that could be to make it possible for corps to get some kind of 'light' sovereignity, not adding jump bridges or Outposts, but simply with the benefit of doing slight upgrades to the system.


I love that term "light sovereignty", it's perfect.

As I've posted a couple of times in here and elsewhere, the incentive (value-creation) needs to be tied to some kind of system that requires coordination and regular (fun) effort, which also then makes it vulnerable to disruption and outright expropriation. This system can even start in hisec with limited risk, rewards, effort required, and vulnerability, then scale up through to nullsec where it peaks at huge rewards for accumulative coordination, but also extremely vulnerable and in need of vigilant protection. Right now it's "elites take moons, install renters, go play another game, failcascade because no one plays anymore" all while the little guy (ie 99% of players) have a generally ****** game experience compared to its potential.
Plyn
Uncharted.
#97 - 2011-10-19 16:32:54 UTC
When fishing, if you catch a fish that is too small to bother with, you return it to its home. Otherwise, there won't be any fish to become the big fish later.

eggbort wrote:
buff the things that players can do and build in 0.0 , through the CSM, the emergence of large empires, the ability to build your own future has diminished and hence the personal construction of the game. There is no reason to be there because your masters are like NPC's

that's my initial reaction to the question


I've lived in various parts of nullsec, with different kinds of alliances, and while my corp/alliance is currently in null I completely agree with this statement.

A while back there was space that, for whatever reason, no one had claimed. Nullsec was a frontier, and enterprising corps formed alliances and went out to stake a claim. Since then, the ability to project force has promoted the inclination of larger alliances to form coalitions and control vast tracks of space with a small number of powerful assets.

The little alliance of "hopes and dreams", with 50-150 pilots, has absolutely no chance to get out to null and try to start up on their own without being renters, and hey if you're going to rent it isn't your space anyways. Since this corp/alliance isn't in null, they will have a hard time attracting pilots who want to be in null, and it's a vicious cycle where the alliance in question will never gain the recruiting momentum required to be large enough to compete.

It takes at least a 400+ man alliance to realistically qualify as a class-B alliance (pets). Even then, you spend the majority of your time and assets protecting things that belong to other people, because that's what your masters tell you to do. On top of that, the alliance that your class-B alliance is serving is never going to allow you enough space/assets to become a class-A (the big guys) alliance yourself. It's a glorified form of renting, where your space is payed for in blood rather than ISK.

There is no sense of frontier in null anymore. No pioneers, and no opportunity to someday become an emerging power. You either join one of the existing megalliances©, or pay to be their slaves.

The only "free" nullsec that exists currently is NPC nullsec, where players have no opportunity to try their hand at being an empire, no opportunity to upgrade the crappyness that NPC space is, no opportunity to construct super-capitals to compete with the current megalliances©, no opportunity to call it your own. The best you can hope for is to recruit nullsec hopefuls and PvP your heart out, hoping that eventually your record shines enough that a class-A alliance offers to assimilate your corps, where you will no longer have any say in the direction that you follow.

Thankfully, winter is coming. I pray that the changes to supercaps will weaken the currently standing megalliances©, and that their fights against each other might actually cost them real assets. Perhaps then they will be forced to leave some space for the small fish to grow on.
Sherksilver
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2011-10-19 16:34:18 UTC
Reason I left NULL (at least for the time being) is that I got tired of constant fleet battles and lag fest...
PvP is fun - but, not being able to do anything but join fleets all the time, gets real, extremely frikin old after a while.

I like doing about everything in the game - Indy, Mining, PvP, etc... - and frankly living in NULL just got to be too much like work for me to enjoy the game (so I had to take a break from it).

Someday I will head back - but things will have to change before I do. I want fun, and variety - not constant lag fest or sit and wait fest in a tower / repping a tower / etc....
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2011-10-19 16:55:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Quote:
Rather than another whine thread about nerfing highsec


nerfing high sec won't work.

I don't fly null sec much any more.. but I used to. I went to null sec a month after starting the game.. it was interesting.. I felt like a valuable part of my corp and allinace.. until we got push out of our space by a number of alliances working together to steal what we had created.. I understood at the time that this was the game... I was left with nothing but my character.
frankly, the experiance burnt me out on null sec.. the around the clock war ops. the nothing-you-can-do to stand against those who out number you finally took it's toll, losing 7 corp pos's and an outpost after trying to defend them for 72 hours with no sleep made up my mind for me....

I now am part of a high sec construction corp (have been for years).. we don't do all the things we used to be able to in null sec.. but we have fun playing together. Chat... mining, collecting materials for corp goals. ...and dealing with the very occasional war decs which are somewhat less tramatic than war in null sec.

I used to think I would return to null sec.. but the longer I play the less likely that looks.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
M5 Tuttle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2011-10-19 17:01:34 UTC
I think I haven't tried to join some null alliance because something turns me off about the idea that most of nullsec is controlled by a few massive entities. Just seems boring to me. If there is some big schism in the superpowers and they actually start fighting over territory instead of just joining together it might seem interesting to me.