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For all the FW peeps: "Dockblocking" - working as intended?

First post First post First post
Author
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#81 - 2012-10-30 20:58:22 UTC
Cearain wrote:
So you think the people are sitting in a station docked but not doing anything, but now that they will be locked out they will undock?
Since I actually live in a system where station lockout has been a real threat, I think I am qualified to answer this question. YES.

Carry on.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#82 - 2012-10-30 21:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
So you think the people are sitting in a station docked but not doing anything, but now that they will be locked out they will undock?
Since I actually live in a system where station lockout has been a real threat, I think I am qualified to answer this question. YES.

Carry on.



So unless your system is going to flip you are going to stay docked and spin your ship?

I don't think there are many people like you. Most people I know want to get out and pvp. They don't want to stay docked. And when they undock they don't want to be forced to do defensive plexing instead of looking for pvp opportunities or other things.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#83 - 2012-11-01 05:23:06 UTC
I'm sorry you don't actually want to participate in FW occupancy warfare. There is a place for players like you - Egghelhende.

trylik banilise
Tarili of Charkras
#84 - 2012-11-03 07:10:35 UTC
I dont agree with this. I think that the idea of this is not to harm the enemy, but to expand the empire you like.
Undeadenemy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-11-05 02:19:30 UTC
Look, as a 0.0 pilot, I have a real solution for what ills FW:

-Drop all pretense of this NPC crap that is going on now.

-Make taking systems in FW like taking systems in Sov space, only make it take less time to shoot the structures (think POCO hitpoints) and have reinforcement timers.

-Remove all the NPC garbage that is cluttering up FW and making it essentially a glorified mission grinding club. Simply reinforce the bunkers or whatever you call them, threaten the system, have a timer, the defenders come defend. Simple as.

-Make the only way to gain LP is by shooting other players in an opposing faction, make the LP gain worth about 10% of their ship, so that it makes no sense to grind you own alts.

-If you lose control of a system, you lose control of the stations, you're locked out, suck it up and move on, counter attack later.



If you're sitting back right now thinking: "That's too harsh" or "Then I won't make much money" then maybe you're playing the wrong part of the game, and you should go do level 4 or 5 missions instead. You don't have a part of the game called "Factional Warfare" and then allow people who don't want to do warfare thrive in it, it doesn't make any sense.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#86 - 2012-11-05 15:02:49 UTC
Yes, because "Blob this space to win" is working so well in null .. right? Smile
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-11-06 01:01:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
I like the idea of dockblocking, but it raises one big issue: people can't access their stuff when sovereignty changes. If they store it in highsec, they have to worry about gate-camps trying to bring it back. I haven't tried making courier contracts for stuff in lowsec but I'd assume that doesn't usually go over very well.

I'm not sure what a good solution would be, but it would be something that gives people a way to keep their stuff accessible if they plan ahead properly and keep up to date on how things work, but it wouldn't be easy. There would need to be room to screw it up and lose stuff.

-edit-
Actually I do have one idea: instead of automatic dockblocking, players should be able to erect sentry guns that shoot at enemies near the station. You can definitely get IN, but you might not be able to get your ships OUT.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Cadica Do'Urden
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-11-06 02:35:43 UTC
Crispin McTarmac wrote:
It would be a bit silly to spend all that time grinding for station upgrades if the enemy can just walz in and use them. Highsec is never far away, and nanite paste is not very expensive. From a story perspective it's important to give a sense that you are in enemy territory and not some weird gladiatorial theme park. With that in mind, why would you ever want to remove dock blocking?


This. 5000 times.
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#89 - 2012-11-06 02:57:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyktor Abyss
'Dock-blocking' is working well as intended.

for example for the last couple of weeks I've been blocked from docking in my home station of Fliet and can't get to a lot of my PVP ships.

This is good because it encourages and motivates me to actually fight for my system back so I can get access to my stuff again.
[Yes I'm aware I could drop militia and move out, but with so many ships it'd be more effort than actually just winning the system back IMHO]

I also like this mechanic because I was up in Ikoskio a day or two ago, had some fun solo pvp in my Fleet Stabber killing a couple of frigs and dessies in a 1v5 situation i managed to escape from in barely 10% armour. After the fight a bit more help came in for them and I was looking around for a good place to repair before round 2. As it happened the nearest repair in lowsec Gallente FW I could dock at would have been 4 or 5 jumps.

I was left a tough decision - to jump to Caldari highsec (1 jump) and repair there or run the gauntlet back to a friendly lowsec station.

choices like that are very good - I landed on the highsec gate at the same time as one of the enemy tackle frigates who jumped in anticipation of catching me so bounced to a neigbouring system before retrying a few minutes later when the highsec jump was clear.

To end the story, I went back for round two of 1v6 and died horribly.

Old non-docking blocking would have made it way too easy for me to get repairs - this system made getting repairs feel like a real achievement, and that should not be taken away.

Edit: also note that making it back out of this 'dangerous' area to dock to log out gave me the same interesting choice. Log in space and risk being probed or try to run the gauntlet. These choices are important for keeping the game interesting.
ColonelNick
Providence Guard
#90 - 2012-11-06 04:13:50 UTC
The whole point of station blocking was to add INCENTIVE to hold systems and to give some meaning to what you're doing. We occupy, its ours. It has to have that feeling of "we own it". Like in my home system i put up a MASSIVE market that my alliance uses to its advantage, but i only made it like that because i KNEW i wasnt going to be helping the Gal Mil because they were locked out.

IMO it should be left alone.

ColonelNick, CEO, Providence Guard, Callsign: "Codeine"

Cire Xinehp
LoGisTicAl ERr0R
#91 - 2012-11-06 13:01:45 UTC
TekGnosis wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
How about keeping the lockout, but put NPC Capital fleets in space to support the Militia?

Make it so that Militia members can always get a waypoint for the roving fleet, and flying near the Mothership or Titan gets you targeted and hit with all 3 flavors of Rep, a cap transfer, and a dialog to Exchange LP for ammo and other consumables, which get dropped directly in your cargo, and pop out in a can if you are full.

You don't get all the benefit of being in a station, but you do get to stay in the fight.

I like this, I really really like this.
I want to like this to the point that reality alters to make it so.


I'm not even IN fw, and I support this product and/or service.

We need more dynamic content in EvE and roaming friendly NPC fleets are one way to achieve that. So much happens around these giant indestructible stations...




This idea does sound rather interesting indeed.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2012-11-06 14:26:45 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
How about keeping the lockout, but put NPC Capital fleets in space to support the Militia?

Make it so that Militia members can always get a waypoint for the roving fleet, and flying near the Mothership or Titan gets you targeted and hit with all 3 flavors of Rep, a cap transfer, and a dialog to Exchange LP for ammo and other consumables, which get dropped directly in your cargo, and pop out in a can if you are full.

You don't get all the benefit of being in a station, but you do get to stay in the fight.
Destructible combat-oriented resource facilities make for much better warfare tactics than do flags on hills. Also, I'd love to see more NPC capital ships, and they should definitely drop some decent loot when you kill them, along with causing their faction militia to lose some points or something.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Cire Xinehp
LoGisTicAl ERr0R
#93 - 2012-11-06 14:35:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Cire Xinehp
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
How about keeping the lockout, but put NPC Capital fleets in space to support the Militia?

Make it so that Militia members can always get a waypoint for the roving fleet, and flying near the Mothership or Titan gets you targeted and hit with all 3 flavors of Rep, a cap transfer, and a dialog to Exchange LP for ammo and other consumables, which get dropped directly in your cargo, and pop out in a can if you are full.

You don't get all the benefit of being in a station, but you do get to stay in the fight.
Destructible combat-oriented resource facilities make for much better warfare tactics than do flags on hills. Also, I'd love to see more NPC capital ships, and they should definitely drop some decent loot when you kill them, along with causing their faction militia to lose some points or something.



Yeah there are some really good ideas floating about, would be nice to get more feedback on these ideas. If they get enough feedback and attention I'm sure CCP will start to look into them.

I guess it would follow sort of in line with the live events for Incursions but on a more frequent basis. I'm not massively into the 'Roleplay' but I think it could be something CCP could get behind a bit more, really giving the players the sense that they are fighting for something much larger.

(Would be nice if the lines drawn would shift and such, Amarr decides to break out in war with Caldari or something hi-sec space shifts control etc not likely but meh would be cool)
Skahd Hii
Redhogs
Fraternity.
#94 - 2012-11-07 09:02:20 UTC
This is Faction Warfare God:
He says keep dat dock blocking shite
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#95 - 2012-11-07 20:14:31 UTC
Quote:
. I recently heard about a noob losing a Machariel because he was trying to dock his stuff at the 24th station in Huola. Just like Crimewatch is streamlining rules so that new players can be held responsible for understanding them, the current lockout mechanics are likewise counter-intuitive.


C'mon seriously? That noob flying a mach has bigger issues to worry about than docking rights at this point in the game.

As a person who has lived in a system where lockout was real on 2 different occasions, I am still all for station dock blocking.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#96 - 2012-11-08 19:49:01 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I wanted to get some input on a specific aspect of the Inferno change, the fact that stations lock enemy combatants our entirely.

Given the massive problem we have right now with FW corps and alliances quitting or relocated in response to the mechanic, I think its time to re-evaluate the value of this particular element of Faction Warfare.

The community has been very loud and clear that we need to get back to FW being a PvP-centric feature, where players enlist for the pew, and stay because they can afford to fight, as supposed to enlisting for the isk, and fighting if they have to (which is never.)

With that goal of increased pew pew in mind - in your experience, has "diagonal plexing" contributed to increased PvP? Is it a conflict driver, compelling you to take to the plexes to defend your space? Or does it make you not want to roam and PvP, because you can't dock and repair or reship?

Lets discuss the value of this mechanic, or alternatives if we decide it isn't helping to generate the conflict we so desperately desire these days.


For me, the docking mechanics aren't much of an issue; it has been that way the entire time I've been in FW and it's just something I'm used to and something that makes sense. Docking games are something that I find extremely boring and getting the fights away from the station is a good thing. To me the bigger issue is the nerf to plexes.

As long as FW provides me with enough income to afford to fight, then I will do FW. This includes running plexes and pewpewing. However, running plexes now take twice as long as they used to, and the LP is valued 1/4th what it used to be (on some items it is negative value)... and sometimes your ship gets damaged from rats and you have to leave in the middle of the plex and go 3j out to repair - this makes me not want to plex, and indeed, now that LP isn't worth very much I don't find myself roaming around the WZ so much. I find myself having to do other (boring) things in HiSec to make ISK and this has decreased my time (and desire) to throw ships away in FW battles, and also remove me as a target in the WZ.

Docking mechanics? May be an issue for some, but for most FW players (the "casuals") the real issue is sustainable income to pew pew, not being able to dock in enemy systems (which people just bypass with alts anyway)

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-11-10 09:41:17 UTC
If dockblocking is going to remain a thing, extend it to every system in an enemy's space, not just the low-sec ones that are currently under an enemy's control.

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that systems that should be exponentially more dangerous for a member of a militia to enter - i.e. their enemy's hi-sec systems - are actually less dangerous because they can just dock up in systems which are supposed to be extremely hostile to them when faced with NPC security or enemy militiamen. From what I can see it's just moved Caldari militia docking games from OMS to Villore and Dodixie, and I imagine it's moved Gallente militia docking games from Tama to Nourv and Jita.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Chris Camcer
Dislocation Corporation
#98 - 2012-11-29 00:02:39 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
If dockblocking is going to remain a thing, extend it to every system in an enemy's space, not just the low-sec ones that are currently under an enemy's control.

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that systems that should be exponentially more dangerous for a member of a militia to enter - i.e. their enemy's hi-sec systems - are actually less dangerous because they can just dock up in systems which are supposed to be extremely hostile to them when faced with NPC security or enemy militiamen. From what I can see it's just moved Caldari militia docking games from OMS to Villore and Dodixie, and I imagine it's moved Gallente militia docking games from Tama to Nourv and Jita.



I agree it should extend to highsec, any enemy faction owned station should deny access. You will still have some stations which are safe havens such as in Korama and Madirmilire for example, both of which have Minmatar owned stations in Caldari and Amarr faction space. SOE as always would be neutral, as would DED, Concord and InterBUS space in Genesis. It's wouldn't be that big of a deal, no?
Call Rollard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#99 - 2012-12-02 21:16:41 UTC
Apparently according to my friend if you are in Gallente FW you can dock up at Jita 4-4, which in a way makes no sense, I maybe missing something out but I don't think you can do that, unless maybe if you can do that. You shoudln't be allowed to dock up in any station in caldari space for example.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#100 - 2012-12-04 10:38:49 UTC
Unsticking, let's make some space for future threads.