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[Updated] How to repopulate nullsec - a question for highsec/WH players (and CCP)

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March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2011-10-19 10:30:25 UTC
the most stopping factor is: misinformation.

People too like to say: blobs, CTAs, non-casual style, all-the-time-pvp and other tales from their arses.

Alliances are different, people are different. Some alliances are pvp-oriented, some other are citizens or pets. You only need to learn about some thing before you are speaking about it. Strange news isn't it? Lol

Let's say: my play style is mostly casual. And i live in 0.0 for like 1 year.
I just log in every day for 1-2 hours to do my (personal) PI project. Maybe i get bookmark to 10/10 escalation and then i run it. Most of a time i just chat in corp/alliance channel.
I pvp only when i like it. We do roams some time for fun and training to pvp. Check my KB to see how many time i spend on CTAs and "constant pvp". Lol

Alliance "blue" politics you say? Why the hell would you bother with it? If you don't want to be part of "bad guys" in game what about your governments in RL?

Sov stuff? Here is the same as in politics. Sov- is for alliance level butthurt. Carebear don't even need to think about sov.

For me personally 0.0 is a lot more safer space than high-sec. You live here in your home. You have greens and blues around and you know: 99.9% of them are friends. You see red of gray around - you know: time to be careful. Somewhere far away there are people who gets your rent and bothers about defending of place you rent. You pay taxes and laugh about politics stuff. Like in RL: wars don't affect real businesses.

TLDR: you only need to gather some info and choose your style 0.0 alliance to get in there. Ask people who live in 0.0 about this place. 0.0 space is for people who play multiplayer game. High-sec is for those who like to play solo game. That's why concord. That's why wardecs. That's why missions and agents.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
pussnheels
Viziam
#62 - 2011-10-19 10:48:45 UTC
Depends what kind of players you want to repopulate nullsec with

If you looking for pvp players it is the resposibility of the alliances themselves they should recruit more if they want more members

If on the other hand you want industrial orientated players then you have 2 major problems

First one is the PVP only mentallity of the large alliances

Second you need to overhaul the sov mechanics to allow renting and leasing to be more viable , and there way too many systems claimed but being unused leaving little or no space for independent smaller alliances

Large alliances have no reason to expand their industrial base , they extract moongoo and mine abc ores , and make a huge profit selling them in high sec , even when they have to buy most of their low end minerals and ice they can still sustain themselves , this system makes sense and works relative well and benefits both high and nullsec

Buffing nullsec industry and nerfing high sec industry to death will not make more players travel into nullsec in my opinion
If you really want more industrial players in null sec , well alo t of ideas on these forums but most important is a drastic attitude change and a good reason for the alliances to expand their industrial base , this without nerfing high sec industry to death ,

taking away a choice of playstyle will probably do more to kill eve then anything else

just my opinion

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#63 - 2011-10-19 10:57:49 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Adelphie wrote:


The problem is there is no "alliance incubator" in eve anymore - so it would be interesting to understand what mechanics could be engineered to make this a reality again.



That's why I'd suggest making nullsec vulnerable to roaming gangs.

Currently, relatively small numbers of players can control huge parts of 0.0, because timers give them time to move the blob into position - they know the time and place where the enemy will strike (or blueball).

If e.g. moonmining arrays could be hacked by a small gang that BO-bridges in a couple of blockade runners to haul the stuff off without any timers or structure grind at all, 0.0 alliances would depend on having their space populated in order to quickly form up small defensive gangs, trying to intercept the raiders and giving them a hard time.

If they don't, their unpopulated systems will end up with a negative cash balance, which would in turn motivate 0.0 alliances to make themselves more attractive for potential inhabitants. So instead of having renters, paying billions to run their bots, they'd end up having to introduce replacement programs, educational services etc... to keep their space populated with actual humans.



Devs should read this post.

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Citizen Smif
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2011-10-19 11:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Citizen Smif
I think it's very simple.. Make nul-sec far more profitable than it currently is. Ok maybe it's not that simply in hindsight but we have an economist for the game. He should create a plan that vastly increases the profitability of nul-sec to such an extent that high-sec weakens. I just want to clarify that I definitely do not want High-sec players punished or penalised for not going to 0.0.. I just believe that 0.0 should be super-profitable compared to high. I don't know anything about 0.0 industry so I can't say anything about that.. But if you want to introduce casual players into null make missions, complexes and anomalies there considerably more profitable. Increase profitbility by like 100% or more.

I personally don't go to null because I don't have the time because of work etc (I don't know what some EvE players do lol!?) If they made null super-profitable where I could take a high quick risk for a high quick return then I would fly over there fairly often. Also if they introduced an inbalance in null-sec where certain systems are deliberately and signifcantly more superior to others it would perhaps restir sov warfare.
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#65 - 2011-10-19 11:39:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn Makanen
'pets' 'meatshields' 'slaves'

And people wonder why other people don't like the idea of Nullsec
Ogi Talvanen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#66 - 2011-10-19 12:05:33 UTC
Who cares what highsec/WH players think of null?
Dehlandrae
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#67 - 2011-10-19 12:11:54 UTC
Adelphie wrote:
To entice players [back] into null there needs to be a big carrot and not a stick. This carrot should be unique, easy to get into and most importantly it should be fun. The problem is I have no idea what that carrot should be because I still happy out in null .


So, what is to stop the already established massive null sec alliances from snatching up this new "unique, easy to get into and fun" carrot and ROFLSTOMPING any of the little guys who try to come out and get a piece of it for themselves?

I wouldn't mind moving to null if I knew it could be done in a profitable fashion that didn't require me to become a scammer (GSF), a bot (DRF) or a member of a rainbows and happiness bluefest (NC.) cause from what I have heard that is the only way to do it.

TBH, I would love to get into 0.0, only I want to do it on my terms, not terms that are forced down my throat by power blocs that care only for themselves.
Ogi Talvanen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#68 - 2011-10-19 12:19:57 UTC
Try npc null. Right because power blocks should care for you and your terms.
Sarina Berghil
New Zion Judge Advocate
#69 - 2011-10-19 12:20:07 UTC
For me to move to 'K-Space player controlled Null-sec' it would have to be better suited for small organizations and fleets. I prefer the social scale of 5-30 people and the Alliance scale of Eve holds no interest for me. There are 2 major factors that I think could change this, one is the way local works and the other is the use of capital ships and force projection. Exactly how those can be changed is not something I will make guesswork about, but it's not suitable for small groups at the moment.


Having said that, I don't mind at all that there is a place in Eve for large alliances where small groups have a hard time finding a foothold. I think it makes perfect sense that there are areas in the game that doesn't interest me. Although in that context I would wish that CCP would focus more on other aspects than high and null-sec. There seems to be this idea that players are supposed to start in high-sec and then move to null, and I think this philosophy is a tad too limited.
Ogi Talvanen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#70 - 2011-10-19 12:27:53 UTC
For me to move to WH space they would have to get working local, jump bridges, gates and stations.
Sarina Berghil
New Zion Judge Advocate
#71 - 2011-10-19 12:33:41 UTC
Ogi Talvanen wrote:
For me to move to WH space they would have to get working local, jump bridges, gates and stations.



You make a good point, I don't know if you intended to.

Some people may stay out of null because it is null, and changing it to accomodate them/us may not be such a good idea. Then it wouldn't be null-sec anymore.

It's better to have variety than one-size fits all systems.
Obax Bannon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2011-10-19 12:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Obax Bannon
I havent been into 0.0 for a good while now, can't say I intend to go back for the forseeable future either.
Living the high life in wormholes suits me just fine.

One thing I would say from when I was back in 0.0 tho is that when the system upgrades were introduced.....mining and ratting indexes (are these still going now ? ) then rather than having the alliance members spread pretty much over most of their own sov each corp then 'lived' in the system they were trying to upgrade.

This basically left whole areas totally empty as each corp were concentrating on their 'own' system which benefited greatly from having a high index. I mean whats the point in going to different systems when you can get everything you want with all your corpmates around you for safety just in one system.

In my opinion this index stuff was a pretty terrible idea as now everyone are just clustered in their own systems.
(probably gonna get someone telling me that it wa taken out of the game a year ago now lol...like i said tho...havent had any interest in 0.0 for some time now)
Ogi Talvanen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#73 - 2011-10-19 12:39:44 UTC
Yeah i did want to make that point.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#74 - 2011-10-19 12:40:08 UTC
Ogi Talvanen wrote:
For me to move to WH space they would have to get working local, jump bridges, gates and stations.


Why would you want to nerf wormholes to be like the lesser spaces?

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Ogi Talvanen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#75 - 2011-10-19 12:50:18 UTC
Its more like a buff then nerf.
Don Solette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2011-10-19 12:52:03 UTC
Love how there's so much disdain for 'care bears' in 99% of the other forums and when we come to zero we get immediately dispatched for doing a bit of mining or what have you, and then you wonder why you're all alone. You made zero into a place that nobody wants to be. Mission accomplished :)

I think I'll stay in high sec where I don't need to have a network of people paid off just in order to make my way back to the space that my corp/alliance is located in without getting utterly destroyed. It's like the underground railroad, except in reverse.

It would be nice to own a small piece of zero in a corp with no alliance and be able to defend that space in some way without having a huge group of people.. but I really don't see that happening.

You hear of so many campaigns against high sec inhabitants such as hulkageddon and the stuff that goonswarm is doing in gallente space to try and make high sec more like null sec through griefing and this gives the impression that if concord wasn't there.. this is what null would be like but 100 times worse and therefore why would I ever want to pay actual money to play a game where I just end up getting frustrated for losing a ship over and over and over.

null sec sounds like prison. you're a new fish and you have to kiss someone's ass to join their group or you're gonna get punked. Is it a surprise that people choose not to live in that environment?

IMO you are victims of your own success. You guys out there in zero built the most hostile aggressive and political environment possible, and nobody wants to play that way except the sadomasochists who built it. Not my idea of fun after working all day. I'd rather sit in a belt and mine a bit, chat with my corpies, make new friends and read reddit all while not having to watch my back like a hawk. Sure I miss out on a lot of cool stuff in the game but you get a mountain of bad for a little good and it's simply not worth it.

I also am pretty sure I'll get at least one in-game threat because of speaking my mind in this post which is another reason why nobody wants to play with you in null or low.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#77 - 2011-10-19 12:58:09 UTC
Ogi Talvanen wrote:
Its more like a buff then nerf.


How is it a buff? You'd be taking the best aspects of wormhole life away and turn it into the admittedly broken crap that exists in null. You notice noone's complaining that wormhole space needs to be fixed... it's all about fixing null.

If you want to see what null should have looked like, jump through a hole.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2011-10-19 13:04:51 UTC
posting in "write-only" thread where no one reads anything Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Mai Kusoni
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2011-10-19 13:25:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mai Kusoni
Rather than dwelling so much on how to fix null, why not determine what killed it in the first place and start from there.

In my opinion null went 'Shadowbane' meaning that guilds (corps) formed alliances that were able to grow without restriction. Add to this the rampant use of zergs (blobs) and before you know it you have null controlled only by huge alliances and no room for the little guy.

This pretty much killed every server in Shadowbane due to large alliances adopting the 'join or die' mentality and taking over the server. Players then got bored and server died. At least in Eve the players can just pack up and head for Empire space rather than leaving the game. Yes there were other issues like bugs, duping and such but players weathered those for the most part but when a complete server (null) becomes one alliance (or close to it)... boring... move on.

Perhaps it is the game mechanic allowing unrestricted corp/alliance growth that needs to be looked at. There needs to always be room for more in null and not merely as some mega alliance's renter, pet or slave.

Adding features to null to attract Empire will only ensure null alliances tighten their grip and hoard these new features for their own making null even less accessible to outsiders.

Perhaps incorporate a restriction on the number of systems a corp/alliance can control or build in based on the population of their corp and a hard cap on number of corps in an alliance.

Other than that it comes down to risk vs. reward and both 'risk' and 'reward' are very subjective depending on the type of player you are referring to.

There's just no place for the little guy in 'join or die' null.
Freyh
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2011-10-19 13:27:01 UTC
How to repopulate nullsec..

It seems to be an untold truth that nullsec should be the end goal of every player in EVE. And that its a problem if players seek to other places in the game.

This is something i dont get. I know even CCP seem to think that nullsec should be the "popular" part of the game, but i dont get why it should be like that.

Ive been in 0.0. I been in those giant fleets involving thousands of people, and ive gotten my dose of abuse from pimplesqueesing seventeen year old FC's. Ive tried to make sense out of whats going on there. Ive tried to fit in between the hordes of socalled elite 0.0 dwellers. The guys that dock up when one neutral enters local. The guys that cant figure out what "hold on gate" really means and the childish alliance chats that really cant get over the poop jokes they throw at eachother.

It just isnt fun. when im in 0.0, i cant really get myself to log on, because the game has suddenly turned in to a chore.

I was involved in killing a titan. And all i remember is that the game was so laggy i had time to get myself a cup of cofee and take a **** mid fight. I wasnt even sure that we really killed it before someone told me we did so. I dont know and dont care whos titan we killed. It was that uninteresting.

The reason it was that uninteresting, is mostly because of how anonymous you are. Yeah, i killed a titan, Im number 456 on the killmail, you see me there? Yeah, was quite a feat. Adrenaline? whats that?

And then in comparison, you can be part of a little flock, 3-4 people, they are all your friends, they know you, they know that you got a littlebit eager with your razor the other day, they know and they are still your friends. You hunt with them, you cloak up in a wormhole, probes down that little legion, you try to control the adrenaline that starts to rush trough your veins, your hands are allready shaking alittlebit when you uncloak and tackle your prey. You call in your friends and they come in their ships youve helped discussed the fitting with and you kill your target and finally you can let the adrenaline free.

That, is EVE to me. And i wont find that in 0.0. I will never populate 0.0 no matter how much cash you can make there. Maybe, ill go there if you can get some good fights with small gangs, but i doubt that will ever happen. And i will still base myself out of low or highsec.

I think its the same with alot more players. It just isnt so, that the pirates in lowsec really wants to be in 0.0 if only some thing or another would be changed there. Lowsec is their prefered playstyle, its that simple.

Highsec too is a place that i think should be left untouched. The highsec dwellers are a beautiful mix of very interesting people. Its a oasis of new and old players with varying degrees of knowledge of game mechanics. You have people that think its a good idea to take an Orca out during wartime because the war shouldnt affect them, You have the pimped out battlecruiser and the lolfit CNR's. You have gankers, wardeccers, stationhuggers canflippers..I can go on and on and i love them all.

These people should be allowed to stay in highsec and do as they allways have done.

If nullsec really is underpopulated, it might just be that the playstyle that are forced upon you when youre out there, just isnt tempting enough. Maybe people feel that there are more interesting things to do in this game than having to deal with what i consider a pretty ******** part of the playerbase.

Maybe its simply time to get over yourself, and realize that there is other parts of this game that other people find more interesting and that there isnt one reason, one problem, that you can fix and then suddenly 0.0 is filled with new faces.