Warfare & Tactics

Thing is,

Why to engage in PVP against enemy who is willing to fight with their pvp ships, they are already ready to lose those so no matter if you win and kill all they practically get just what they wanted.

I prefer killing enemy on time they are not willing to lose their ships, example when they are making isk for their PVP ships.

Most people want to play EVE as some arcade game , have some fights and see some explosions, other play it as social game where they make friends and build stuff and mine etc..., then there is players who want to play it as strategy game by destroying their enemies totally.

There is lot of different ways to play eve and different goals, none of those are right or wrong, you will just setup goal for yourself and if you achieve it you have won your EVE.

Well imo killing ratters is boring, starting fights you know you'll win. If that is what you like go to null, in facrtion warfare you are not going to have fun since youll be fighting the same people over and over. Look at the gangwarfare by matari exodus., they would get bored real fast. People will know their way of fighting after several engagements and it will simply lead to both sides bringing more tank than gank. Hating your enemies isn't realy helpfull either, better to just have fun and fight. Occadionally ship up and down to allow fights. You need to be lenient and willing to take losses, so you bring more gank, less tank and logi. Faction warfare is for people who like xplodie thing n ships, even if its your own.
So less killing frigs with tengus and ganking on the undock ( you people know who you are) and more BC brawl and going balls to the walls

This is biggest pile of horse manure ever posted on forums. This is no fight club, this is no drama-lama free paradise. This is just exactly the same crap as everywhere else in eve, except isk is more easier and thus causes more public outcry.

Do you think anyone wants to fight in FW anymore? Hell no. It does not make sense to have other characters than Gallente/Matar militia since CCP made the emergency patch and now there are only two militias with good isk.

Why would you work for higher tier for your own militia when you could simply roll an alt for other militia who already has it. What do you have to lose? What you have to gain for climbing that hill? Good fights? Dont make me laugh. Nobody in FW wants to fight. There is no isk to be made with it.

ISK is the main motivation for FW. Yet none of the mechanics support teaming or cooperating with anyone else since you would just hurt your wallet. You dont plex enemy home systems since that is not cost effective. You go to backwaters and noboby will bother you and stay solo and dont give a crap about people in militia, especially the new people since they are just potential isk leeches.

This is the philosophy of CCP when they redesigned FW.

If you want fight club join RvB

from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/10/faction-warfare-dictatorial-numbers.html

So I wrote a thing complaining about the faction warfare system, how the new massaged numbers for Retribution don't really change much in terms of gameplay from the Inferno numbers.

The argument being that the system, the collection of numbers which CCP keeps massaging, attempts to groom players into a certain playstyle if they want to earn any living whatsoever within faction warfare. Basically, CCP tells the faction warfare player, if you want to earn a living, then you should care about PvE: orbiting buttons and running missions. PvP is secondary.

Some folks have pointed out to me that the entire game is made out of numbers, numbers which CCP continually massage. Yes, I knew that. And that's true. Ship rebalancing, as an example. The difference between ship rebalancing and faction warfare, though, is a micro system versus a macro system.

Whether an Enyo does 180 DPS now versus 170 DPS come Retribution isn't going to change how I play the game, it doesn't even dictate how I should play the game. If heavy missile launchers are nerfed come December, it might change what ships I prefer to fly, but it doesn't tell me that I should stop flying ships, that I should stop blowing **** up. The numbers that define the ships we fly, that's a micro system. It will cause to us to make small adjustments to our gameplay, but nothing larger, nothing radical.

Faction warfare is a macro system. If the system tells us that orbiting buttons solo will give us X loyalty points [LP]. Or that running missions will reward Y LP. And that killing people will reward Z LP. And that X or Y and very much greater than Z, then that system is telling us how we should play the game, that PvE is trumping PvP. In a system that's supposed to be creating more PvP opportunities.

The current state of the faction warfare macro system is out of whack with what the system should be encouraging: more PvP.

The one consistent bit of debate that came out of the Hans Visits Fweddit discussion is that players want to see less LP rewarded for PvE activities, and more rewarded for PvP activities. Faction warfare is, or is supposed to be, a PvP dominant game feature. To have features that tell players that PvE is more important than PvP is, well, inane.

Hans seemed to agree with this. "I agree with you completely," he said, every time someone brought up the issue of PvP-over-PvE. Of course, it's hard to tell with Hans, because he tends to agree with everybody. He's the sort of guy that wants to please everyone, which is probably what makes him a good politician. The problem, if he's agreeing with everything, you don't really get a sense of what he's actually thinking. Hell, Soundwave might tell him "I want to see more PvE in faction warfare" and Hans' response might very well be "I agree with you completely." We'll have to trust that Hans will push the PvP-over-PvE issue forcefully with CCP. Unfortunately, if CCP is unhappy with his badgering, he'll probably back off. Hans is on your side as long as it doesn't annoy anyone important.

Come next February, we'll know how well Hans did as the faction warfare representative. If faction warfare still seems broken, then a lot of the blame falls squarely on his shoulders. Eighty percent of these Retribution fixes and iterations were pushed heavily by Hans. And I doubt CCP would have went through with many of them without Hans haranguing them about it all. CCP thought faction warfare was pretty much a done deal with Inferno.

Back to the micro versus the macro. Micro features don't have a huge affect on our gameplay styles. They'll cause minor adjustments here and there, but that's about it. It's the macro systems we have to keep a careful eye on, because those drive players towards specific features and play styles. Regarding faction warfare, CCP seems to be telling the PvPer that PvE is the all-important game feature. Which is really at odds with what faction warfare is all about. Imagine if killing players increased mining yield? Forcing people into PvP would be as nonsensical a mechanic in an entirely PvE activity.

While I agree that FW should be a PVP activity, I don't see how LP for PVP is going to be a good idea. Goonswarm already poked a HUGE hole in that idea, if we all remember.

Really, funding PVP is an issue in all of Eve, not just FW. Look how many null players have high sec mission alts, or dedicated tengu farm alts. In wormholes, people run sites in order to fund their shiny PVP ships, every player either has to strike a PVP/PVE balance, or buy plexes.

I for one like the new system, as the PVE is inherently risky, and while it could use some tweaks and balancing, overall it seems good, even as a member of the "losing" side.

There is a risk of "having your cake and eating it too" (silly saying, I know), if funding the PVP becomes too easy. We all saw the power creep issue when the Minmatar could essentially print ISK and could counter any fleet we brought out with a bigger and better fleet. Funding your PVP should be a struggle, honestly, to make you have a REAL stake in the outcome of the battle. I can whelp 500 condors and not really care, but losing a faction BS or T3 SHOULD hurt.

Any and all pew which happens is purely related to how much isk you can make later with CCP designated dominant carebear faction (= gal/matar). Nothing else features into it. But then again, this is hardly surprising seeing how biased CCP is. Why should I go run plexes for Amarr when I can roll a misson alt and run those for people who already have dominant tier?

Perhaps CCP should answer that. And "good fights" is not the answer since we all know 99% of players dont want those.

That is an issue, but I don't suggest rewarding more LP than a ship+insurance is worth.

The T5 LP reward for destroying ships is not too bad, and it is definitely not at the ceiling of what CCP could be rewarding.

So I was out scanning around today, came up with an idea to help make low-sec piracy a more viable "profession". It ties in with factional warfare, and I believe that it will be a small scale conflict driver throughout FW low-sec across the entire game.

My thought is that if you're a pilot, not a member of any militia. You come across a militia pilot in a LS system controlled by any of the other militias, it doesn't matter which, as long as the system doesn't belong to your targets militia. You decide to engage that militia pilot, and kill them.

What benefit does this grant you as a non-FW pilot?

...Not much. A kill mail? Maybe some tears? You take a sec status hit and have to wait out your GCC. And hopefully get some loot?

My proposal is that if you kill any militia member in a system that belongs to another militia, you would be paid a portion of the LP reward that the kill would normally be worth by the faction that controls the system. Essentially you could be "paid" by the factions for disrupting their opponents, and protecting their territory, without having to join a militia.

Privateering.

If you join the militia, of course the reward would be far better, but this would open up the FW loyalty point stores to outside players, and would drive non militia players to fight in these FW systems far more.

It makes being a -10 low-sec pirate a much more viable play style, almost a real "profession". It would allow them to make money from the LP stores, like the majority of FW pilots, however it should NOT be anywhere near as profitable as actually joining the militias.

I feel that it opens up a large subsection of the game to new and interesting game play.

remove FW missions, then FW is fixed !