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POCO BPC from faction LP stores?
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Saiphas Cain
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-10-19 05:31:59 UTC
The thing burning me the worst about the proposed POCO changes is the BPC only sales from Faction Warfare LP stores. First off, I understand wanting to give the faction warfare "more" but this isn't the thing to do it with. a POCO is an industrial structure and selling it from factional warfare LP stores makes a lot less sense than selling it from industrial LP stores like Sukuuvestaa ( Real estate? What's a planet if not lots of that ) and Kaalakiota ( Biggest industrial manufacturer in the state ) for example. This feels designed to make everyone suffer at the hands of the previously neglected faction warfare pilots.
Eladaris
Indefinite.
#2 - 2011-10-19 05:54:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Eladaris
Saiphas Cain wrote:
The thing burning me the worst about the proposed POCO changes is the BPC only sales from Faction Warfare LP stores.


You didn't bother to read the dev blog? The blueprint copy for the Customs Office Gantry will be available from the CONCORD loyalty point store. Sure it's 50% more, but it's not locked into FW only as you seem to be trying to burning about.

Saiphas Cain wrote:
This feels designed to make everyone suffer at the hands of the previously neglected faction warfare pilots.


CONCORD LP? Because gawd... it's not like there aren't a few hundred people racking that up every hour of every day in high-sec.
VaMei
Meafi Corp
#3 - 2011-10-19 10:57:50 UTC  |  Edited by: VaMei
My concern with this is that the players that are least likely to want to build and deploy a POCO (FW PvPers and Hi-sec raid runners), are the only ones with access to the BPC.

Even if they do come to the forums and learn the they'll have this new money maker available in a month or so, how many of them will choose to buy the POCO vs saving for whatever big gear item it is they wanted? The "Rocks I mine are free" mentality isn't limited to just to miners.

With that in mind, how long is it going to take to get enough POCOs in the hands of players that can defend them to get PI back up to speed?
Shirah Yuri
Tonic Empire
#4 - 2011-10-19 13:32:15 UTC
There will be plenty of BPC's to be had via Contracts, I bet. You need not worry. Many people think only in ISK/LP, and I guess the gantry BPC's will deliver good ratios in the beginning...
VaMei
Meafi Corp
#5 - 2011-10-19 14:03:59 UTC  |  Edited by: VaMei
I certainly hope so, but if CCP plans to kill the NPC COs and release the POCO BPCs on the same day there's going to be trouble.

For a start, consider the number of POCOs needed. With ~7500 systems in Eve, guesstimate 1/2 are not hi-sec, and that there is a low side average of only 5 planets per system; that's 18,750 planets that will not have a CO on launch day. If only half of those are being harvested, that's still a load of planets that are going to have their production interrupted.

Then consider that the resources required to make the things are PI resources that will be stretched by the new demands and supply disruptions... I see potential for problems.

There's no doubt that we will adapt, but the transition is going to be interesting to say the least.
Chevalleis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-10-19 15:36:00 UTC
I doubt that that many people are going to go through the effort to replace the CO s on their planets. I would say one third, which would round up to 3k planets.
Saiphas Cain
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-19 16:57:51 UTC
Eladaris wrote:
Saiphas Cain wrote:
The thing burning me the worst about the proposed POCO changes is the BPC only sales from Faction Warfare LP stores.


You didn't bother to read the dev blog? The blueprint copy for the Customs Office Gantry will be available from the CONCORD loyalty point store. Sure it's 50% more, but it's not locked into FW only as you seem to be trying to burning about.

Saiphas Cain wrote:
This feels designed to make everyone suffer at the hands of the previously neglected faction warfare pilots.


CONCORD LP? Because gawd... it's not like there aren't a few hundred people racking that up every hour of every day in high-sec.


I read it. I don't like the CONCORD LP store any more than the Faction LP stores. You don't make nullsec any more self sufficient by further tying it to highsec concepts like CONCORD. There's "a few hundred" highsec miners churning out minerals every hour of every day in highsec as well but that's something that I can get locally. This I can't.
Eladaris
Indefinite.
#8 - 2011-10-19 18:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Eladaris
Saiphas Cain wrote:
I read it. I don't like the CONCORD LP store any more than the Faction LP stores. You don't make nullsec any more self sufficient by further tying it to highsec concepts like CONCORD. There's "a few hundred" highsec miners churning out minerals every hour of every day in highsec as well but that's something that I can get locally. This I can't.


I guess your alliance magically got a Revenant BPC through fairies or something? Someone in that alliance must have run at least a few Incursions somewhere, huh? There also appear to be three null Incursions running right now. Not getting into whether null Incursions are viable (lolnull incurions), but it actually is something that does occur in null.

Besides, CCP seems to be steering the new POCO's into the hands of corporations and alliances, not individuals.

VaMei wrote:
Even if they do come to the forums and learn the they'll have this new money maker available in a month or so, how many of them will choose to buy the POCO vs saving for whatever big gear item it is they wanted? The "Rocks I mine are free" mentality isn't limited to just to miners.


So... err... you could get a few percent of profit off selling, I dunno, a Domi Navy issue in Jita. Or you could get a ton of profit off selling a BPC on day one and then buying two of whatever you were saving the LP for before. Yes, you can't bet against stupid, even in Eve, but I think at least a few people are going to start desperately saving every single FW LP/CONCORD LP between now and whenever they release this to capitalize on the folks who want zero tax on their PI chains.

Whether or not small corporations will actually spend that sort of ISK on a POCO is a different story altogether. This could just be another grand money-grab for the big null sec alliances.
Saiphas Cain
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-10-19 23:39:21 UTC

- I guess your alliance magically got a Revenant BPC through fairies or something?

I, wait, what? I don't even? YOU're trying to Troll ME?! That's not how this works! Did you not see my Corp tag? I've got a reputation to uphold!

That being said, there's a lot of ways that BPC could have been obtained. My first guess would be lies and flim-flam but whatever. If you see GSF running an incursion it's more likely being done because it's an irritating speedbump in our other operations and less for LP's. If a big damned BPC falls out of the supercarrier when it was cracked open, well, it shouldn't have been there, we can't be held responsible for any damages, etc, etc. legalese disclaimer.

My primary argument wasn't even trolltastic or trollbaitish ( yea, I fail as a WItroll, but I'm out of practice. ) my argument was CCP's words ( akin to we want to make nullsec more self sufficient ) are in this case completely contrary to their actions ( another thing you're going to want in nullsec won't be available from nullsec, wheeeeeee! )

But seriously... if you know any faries that would like to rent some GSF space hook me up will ya? I'll put in a good word with management for em. We could use more Revenants.
Eladaris
Indefinite.
#10 - 2011-10-20 01:16:00 UTC
Saiphas Cain wrote:
My primary argument wasn't even trolltastic or trollbaitish ( yea, I fail as a WItroll, but I'm out of practice. ) my argument was CCP's words ( akin to we want to make nullsec more self sufficient ) are in this case completely contrary to their actions ( another thing you're going to want in nullsec won't be available from nullsec, wheeeeeee! )


^_^

To drop the trollbait shenanigans, the way things are setup now it's really impossible to do everything in one area. It's not like there's enough manufacturing slots in null to keep up with the ammo usage so a ton of stuff gets dragged down from hi-sec.

AFAIK null sec incursions are ignored unless they're in the middle of someone's important / ratting space.

The ultimate irony? A while back CCP put out a lessons learned thing where they stated that RF timer's were horrible, and a big part of the problem with Sov. What do the POCO's have? yup, RF timers. whee!

Sadly if you can't get a high-sec alt into an incursion (I always assumed most null folks had an Incursion alt somewhere anyway, 100m ISK an hour is hard to turn down) you can always be raped on BPC price via contracts like the rest of New Eden.
Saiphas Cain
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-10-20 02:15:47 UTC
Well played and well stated.

- AFAIK null sec incursions are ignored unless they're in the middle of someone's important / ratting space.

pretty spot on from what I've seen.

So far as actually running the Incursions for profit... I must admit ignorance. If people can really make 100m an hour then that's a fantastic moneymaking scheme and I expect to see the BPC's flow like water on the market. Personally I avoid them like a plague as I expect to be shot by other podders while the Sanshas laugh in the opening salvo. :)
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-10-21 19:28:01 UTC
So.... perhaps some partnerships may spring up between FW corps and Industrial corps? Shocked
Owho
Playing God Enterprises
#13 - 2011-10-31 12:21:28 UTC
Oh and about that super faction BPC . yes your alliance was involved in low-sec incursions for it. Yes Goons actively ran them to get said BPC. I witnessed it and was was war deced in another alliance by goons for our activitys in low sec incursions. So yes even goons are PVEers. Sad fact but yep they are. AS far as where to get the POCO BPC the market will be flooded just like the new faction bs's from what a year ago . High price for first month then the market will bottom out and you'll be lucky to get half the original price.
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer
#14 - 2011-11-28 15:25:44 UTC
Eladaris wrote:
CONCORD LP? Because gawd... it's not like there aren't a few hundred people racking that up every hour of every day in high-sec.


/me fits Hulk for incursions

... oh wait
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-11-28 15:45:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Skippermonkey
VaMei wrote:
I certainly hope so, but if CCP plans to kill the NPC COs and release the POCO BPCs on the same day there's going to be trouble.

Read the damn devblogs before ventign your sleep over the internet
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3075
devblog wrote:

  • The highsec Customs Offices are transferred to CONCORD as previously planned
  • Ownership of all lowsec, 0.0 and wormhole Customs Offices is transferred to NPC corp “Interbus”
  • The Interbus Customs Offices can be used for PI or shot down (without standing or security penalty)
  • Interbus Customs Offices will not be de-spawned, they will remain until destroyed by players
  • The Interbus Corporation will charge slightly more tax than CONCORD and we will continue to monitor the tax rates for both CONCORD and Interbus

    • COME AT ME BRO

    I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
    Saiphas Cain
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #16 - 2011-11-30 00:10:20 UTC
    Skippermonkey wrote:
    VaMei wrote:
    I certainly hope so, but if CCP plans to kill the NPC COs and release the POCO BPCs on the same day there's going to be trouble.

    Read the damn devblogs before ventign your sleep over the internet
    http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3075
    devblog wrote:

  • The highsec Customs Offices are transferred to CONCORD as previously planned
  • Ownership of all lowsec, 0.0 and wormhole Customs Offices is transferred to NPC corp “Interbus”
  • The Interbus Customs Offices can be used for PI or shot down (without standing or security penalty)
  • Interbus Customs Offices will not be de-spawned, they will remain until destroyed by players
  • The Interbus Corporation will charge slightly more tax than CONCORD and we will continue to monitor the tax rates for both CONCORD and Interbus



    • You Klown, those arguments were posted long before that dev information was given.

    No Ex Post Facto victory for you!