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L4 active shield tanking
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Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-10-28 12:25:43 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
Risien Drogonne wrote:
Which level 4 mission ships don't need cap boosters or ASBs?

From my experience:
Raven
Navy Scorpion
Navy Raven
Fleet Tempest


Add Machariel and Vargur to that. Tengu obviously. Rattlesnake.

If you spend enough on your tank almost any ship can work. Not that that's always a good idea.


Also add the Maelstrom if you've got Minmatar Battleships trained up. Depending on the rats, its burst tank can handle up to 1700 EHP/s without faction modules, ASB's, or cap boosters. Add a faction XLSB and you're well over 2000 EHP/s.

Granted, it will cap out in a couple of minutes, but that should give you time to blast enough enemy DPS off the field that you'll be able to pulse the XLSB more sparingly.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Justin Valentine
Mickey Mouse Club
#22 - 2012-10-29 12:32:57 UTC
Paikis wrote:
There are three rules that I consider to be very important for tanking mission ships. They are the following:
1. Always use a Damage Control. There are exceptions, but if you don't know what those exceptions are, then they don't apply to you.
2. Don't use ASBs on mission ships. Just don't do it. As above, there are exceptions, but if you don't know what they are, you shouldn't be doing it.


1. DONT always use a damage control, there are exceptions you MIGHT use one eg Shiny new Mach which you have never flown before, just use a dc in 1 mission to get a feel for it.
2. DO TRY an ASB fit (eft first), right now these boosters are pretty awesome and possibly op, fit 2 and enjoy. As a bonus they work very well with any ship that has shield boost bonus (dual ASB Maelstrom ftw).
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-10-29 16:53:54 UTC
One more thing about tanking mission ships: when you're first getting a feel for it, overtank (that's when you want to have the DC). Sacrifice gank for tank until you're comfortable with how it handles and how well it absorbs incoming fire. Then as you get more comfortable, swap out tank modules for firepower enhancements.

Overtanking and a DC will help make sure you don't lose an expensive ship you're not yet familiar with. Sure, it'll take you longer to do missions starting out, but wouldn't you rather take a little extra time to get comfortable in your new ship than come home in a pod and have to replace all your stuff?

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-10-29 17:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Caleidascope wrote:
Risien Drogonne wrote:
Which level 4 mission ships don't need cap boosters or ASBs?

From my experience:
Raven
Navy Scorpion
Navy Raven
Fleet Tempest


Navy Mega
Navy Dominix
Navy Apoc
Navy Armageddon
Tempest Fleet Issue
Typhoon Fleet Issue
Machariel
Vindicator
Rattlesnake
Bhaalgorn

And almost every other Tier 1/2/3 Battleship as far as you get top skills for it and fit it accordingly.

Now when you want to tank with dps AND speed AND you don't have related skills on top, it's another story.

The poster above explained it very well.

brb
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-10-30 13:10:34 UTC
DC...on a (L4) mission boat? wtf?

I wish I could get MORE damage mods on my boat at the expense of tank. It's overtanked and not really much I can do to alter that meaninfully Sad
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-10-30 14:49:11 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
DC...on a (L4) mission boat? wtf?

I wish I could get MORE damage mods on my boat at the expense of tank. It's overtanked and not really much I can do to alter that meaninfully Sad


You do get people who run missions without perfect skills from time to time. And missions do go sideways on occasion - sometimes badly enough that you end up with your tank broken and praying you can warp out. Lord knows I've had a couple of instances where I caught too much aggro and heard the hull-integrity alarm screaming before I could get clear, and I lost enough structure that if I hadn't been running a DC, I would have lost my mission-runner.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Ginger Barbarella
#27 - 2012-10-30 15:40:07 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
On an unbonused ship I've been considering the following:
2 x LASB
1 x XLASB
1 x XLSB + 1 x Heavy Cap II
All of these setups have four hardeners.


Seeing fits like this makes me want to join the "nerf ASB!" camp... Anyone else think this kind of unimaginative fit is just fail?

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#28 - 2012-10-30 19:05:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Paikis wrote:
There are three rules that I consider to be very important for tanking mission ships. They are the following:
1. Always use a Damage Control. There are exceptions, but if you don't know what those exceptions are, then they don't apply to you.


The exception is: You're doing things right, and you're shield tanking.

Seriously, if you need a damage control on your shield-tanked mission ship, you're most likely doing things wrong.

I have to disagree with this.
I used to believe this but it is entirely inaccurate.

The thing with a damage controller is the resist boost although small,it gives to shields does not suffer from stacking penalties like hardeners do. Plus it is the only low slot mod that can give shield resists.

If you are trying to build a ship with resists over 80% using a damage controller II in a low slot will make it a lot easier. A ship with resists of 80-85% needs much less boost to keep up with incoming damage than a ship with 70-75% resists.

Once I discovered how much difference that extra 12% resists could make, I returned to using damage controllers and level 4 missions became much easier. Not that they were hard before, but now they are a cake walk.

I often drop a hardener for a TP and add a DC in a low to get much the same tank with the bonus of another TP.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#29 - 2012-10-30 23:49:53 UTC
Paikis wrote:
There are three rules that I consider to be very important for tanking mission ships. They are the following:
1. Always use a Damage Control. There are exceptions, but if you don't know what those exceptions are, then they don't apply to you.

Except that you get better resists, when armour tanking, if you have a faction specific tanking mod and for shields you can put another damage mod there.

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#30 - 2012-10-31 04:37:26 UTC
So many people who don't like the damage controls, I bet you all use XL boosters and tell everyone who doesn't that they're doing it wrong too.

Keep on bleating folks. BAAAAA!
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-10-31 06:06:34 UTC
I have been missioning for three years now. fly three races battleships, and run more missions in more ships then i want to remember.

I have not always fit damage controls to mission ships. but more often then not wish i had.
things can go sideways even if you know exactly what you are doing. not every problem is user error. and nothing ever shows up in CCP logs. that extra bit of tank (60% resists on hull) can, and often do make all the difference.

even now with near perfect skills, (sigh, 40 days for marauder 5) i can still disconnect or have a computer lock up on me. hell even my connection can get reset by an angry cat or neighbor. a heavy lag or sudden call may mean that my burst tanking doesnt activate or my timing is off.

people talk like they are always perfect, and conditions are always optimal.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-10-31 08:19:47 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
DC...on a (L4) mission boat? wtf?

I wish I could get MORE damage mods on my boat at the expense of tank. It's overtanked and not really much I can do to alter that meaninfully Sad


You do get people who run missions without perfect skills from time to time. And missions do go sideways on occasion - sometimes badly enough that you end up with your tank broken and praying you can warp out. Lord knows I've had a couple of instances where I caught too much aggro and heard the hull-integrity alarm screaming before I could get clear, and I lost enough structure that if I hadn't been running a DC, I would have lost my mission-runner.


Fair enough, although I'm a million miles away from perfect skills, though I do have a rather tanky hull. And I don't use ASB's, they were added when I was on a long hiatus so didn't even know they existed until recently.
Arkadelphia
Unforetold Mania
#33 - 2012-10-31 23:20:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkadelphia
Risien Drogonne wrote:
Which level 4 mission ships don't need cap boosters or ASBs?


Machariel

7x 800s (standard t1 ammo)
1x Faction Heavy Nos

1x Pith A-type large shield booster
1x Pith A-type shield boost amplifier
2x Dead space hardeners
1x Dead space AB or MWD

4x RF gyros
3x T2 tracking enhancers

1x ccc
2x projectile rigs

forget cap stable please. I have run every level 4 in minmatar and caldari space solo..thats not blitzing that running the whole thing. With proper management of booster and prop mod for range you fly through missions.
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