Player Features and Ideas Discussion

mm.. the missile rigs certainly add a lot of range especially T2 its definitely too much they need a nerf along with missile velocity and missile bombardment skills and then maybe adding TE's and TC's wouldn't brake missiles to OP range which they would if they were added atm.

That is what every projectile enthusiast has done in this entire thread.
How can you people can not wrap your head around the fact HML was the only viable option for Caldari Missile pvp.
We have posted the numbers of the top 20 most used weapons Projectiles dominate this list over every other weapons system out there. As well as projectile ships make up almost half of the top 20 ships we see on this list.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=invtype&id=12034

So giving the Caldari only two viable ships who used the same weapons system then nerfing that entire weapons system and in effect nerfing both ships and saying everything is balanced is bullshit and if you deny that your just a bigot.
And before you try to flood the replies with these arguments yes the Cruise are seeing some love but there are still no good hulls to put them on. The Raven is not a very good hull when compared to other hulls. The use will go up for a short time as people test out the new changes but ultimately they will see that the projectiles and related hulls are still the better option as proven by the numbers provided to us thanks to eve-kill.

And while bringing HML into line with other like systems seems like a reasonable thing to do it will ultimately bring the use of hml and the drake/tengu way down and with no more real advantage they will fade out month after month.
So for arguments sake i will concede saying that maybe it wont totally break.
But will it push the tides more in the favor of projectiles and you will see even a larger gaps between projectiles and everyone else? You bet your ass it will.

And thus you will see less and less fleets accepting the Caldari missile boat PVE or PVP they will get hit on both ends.
This is why it is a game breaking change for the Caldari missile users.

Few more points to make saying things along the lines of

You should have cross trained.
Any personal attacks that are sure to be targeted at me.
Pointing out grammatical errors
Posting by EFT warriors.
Or simply anyone who has not been on the test servers.

Will be taken at face value only.
Also for the sake of argument this is intended to compare Missiles / Projectiles for this time I really do not care about laser or Hybrids as I pretty much even use in the top 20 your beef should be with projectiles not missiles.
Also reader be wary of people posting in defense of laser or hybrids when they are projectile users

Arguments. It is just rubbish. Can't even bother to make counter arguments.

Oh sure, Railguns, arties and beams are short range weapons too. It must be, otherwise, pulse would not ourange their short range ammo with scorch.

...

PS : HML long range ammo is T1/faction ammo, because they don't need high damage long range ammo, as opposed to turrets.

Yes, and?

Compare damage:
Aurora vs Gleam
Spike vs Javelin
Tremor vs Quake

Long range ammo does less damage.

Oh, and by your logic my Coercer with 19,7 km optimal uses medium long range turrets. So, here you guys heard it first time: dual light pulse lasers are actually medium long range turrets.

What don't you understand in "short range high damage ammo" ?

I know it's a long suite of words, but it's pretty straight forward IMO, even for non native english speakers. :o

That rule of thumb only really works for a target orbiting you, or running directly away from you.
And even then, not a very high speed target or a very low speed target.

For instance if you have a 3750m/s frig flying directly at you, you can start firing you missiles a little bit under 2 (Flight time x Missile Velocity).

Fozzie's point about "knowing the range of your missiles" is to do with the fact that missiles take time to accelerate up to their max speed. Now, he's drastically reduced that time. So, that actual range of your missiles used to be something like Flight time x ( Average velocity of your missiles - Average velocity of your target away from your missiles ). Fozzie's change has made "Average velocity of your missiles" roughly equivalent to the posted flight time of your missiles.

So, whereas before I'd been reduced to an ambiguous "a little bit under" 2 x (DeltaVT), it is now almost precisely that.

For instance if you have a 4300m/s frig flying directly at you, you can start firing your missiles at pretty well 2 (Flight time x Missile Velocity).

IMHO the more elegant solution would have been to make Missiles better at doing Relative Velocity calculations based on the projected flight path of the target vessel. But... that system is breakable in ways a straight tail-chase isn't (and would be a ***** to code, and would probably increase lag).

But, in any event, that wasn't the justification for the change, that was just a nice added extra. The justification for the change was that HMLs needed a little heavy handed nerf bat love.

should be common seans that if a target is 50k away from you flying at over 1k ms if you have a max flight time of 44 if you start fireing its gonna hit him by time the missle feul has been used up as i said should be common seanse.

Because, Blasters and ACs are Medium Ranged Weapon Systems?
(I'd consider an argument on Zealots with HPLs and Scorch).

But for clarifiction, I'm talking about Beam Lazors, Rail Guns and Artillery cannons. Which are (along with HMLs) the medium Mid-Range weapon systems. All of which are truly awful at tracking unwebbed frigates below about 30km (YMMV a little).

Yup, and the conversation was re: Precision ammo. Which makes firing it at BCs and CCs irrelevent (because doing that would be - except for a few edge cases - a mistake).



My whole long explanation was to point at that ATM it's also wrong.

Whereas, in future it will be closer to being true.

OFC you don't want your primary weapons system nerfed. See we have more common ground then you think.



So your fix for Projectiles is buffing other systems? right Lili Lu I would like to introduce you to powercreep


Right as we have pointed out why the HML was harsh and overdone


Right I would like to repost this from my last thread.

Few more points to make saying things along the lines of

You should have cross trained.
Any personal attacks that are sure to be targeted at me. (sure did call that one)
Pointing out grammatical errors
Posting by EFT warriors.
Or simply anyone who has not been on the test servers.

Will be taken at face value only.
Also for the sake of argument this is intended to compare Missiles / Projectiles for this time I really do not care about laser or Hybrids as I pretty much even use in the top 20 your beef should be with projectiles not missiles.
Also reader be wary of people posting in defense of laser or hybrids when they are projectile users

I wasn't going to give you the time of day but you are that good of a troll I had to respond to this.
Again you have added nothing of value to this thread you just continually barrage the Caldai pilots with insults and flame threads in an attempt to discredit them.

These are typical debate tactics when you really have no valid argument so you resort to what we call ad hominem
and other tactics you attempt to use we like to call a red herring.
Just to be clear ad hominem is when you attack an individual instead of the argument and you have proven to do this time and time again post after post.

red herring on the other hand is an attempt to introduce something non related to the topic.
I made it clear my intent was to compare missile to projectiles when considering balance,
yet you attempt to bring lasers and TC into the argument.

and you say my post are ridiculous I suggest you reread your own lol.