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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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Number of Teams and Bidding Process

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SpeedY G0nZaleZ
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#1 - 2012-10-27 13:50:06 UTC
Do we get any information as to how many teams have entered and how the bidding process will work?
Seldarine
Resolute Supremacy
#2 - 2012-10-27 14:03:45 UTC
This was written at the bottom of the page on the tournament website:

Quote:
Further details concerning the auction will be available in updates to this page and a forthcoming dev blog.





Not sure if that has been remembered by any devs as it seems to be getting a little last minute for a devblog about the auction proceedings.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3 - 2012-10-27 17:50:40 UTC
The key information is that team captains or their designated representative must be online and in the "Live Dev Blog" channel tonight at 19:00 evetime. CCP Bro will conduct the auction since CCP Soundwave is unable to make it. Several members of the tournament team will be around to help make sure we have a smooth process for everyone.

See you guys ingame at 19:00!

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
SpeedY G0nZaleZ
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#4 - 2012-10-27 22:47:45 UTC
Obligatory "Right after I won a bid for 23 PLEX you announced the numbers of teams that entered through an open interface to be 87".

I am a little bit pissed that everyone after me had more information than I did. Knowing going in that there were 87 teams signed up with an open interface then I might have been able to work out that there would not be a ton of demand.

In all seriousness you either tell everyone or noone. It was literally right after I got a slot. And I did ask you in advance. /me points at thread.
Seldarine
Resolute Supremacy
#5 - 2012-10-27 23:00:25 UTC
SpeedY G0nZaleZ wrote:
Obligatory "Right after I won a bid for 23 PLEX you announced the numbers of teams that entered through an open interface to be 87".

I am a little bit pissed that everyone after me had more information than I did. Knowing going in that there were 87 teams signed up with an open interface then I might have been able to work out that there would not be a ton of demand.

In all seriousness you either tell everyone or noone. It was literally right after I got a slot. And I did ask you in advance. /me points at thread.




lol

The teams bidding after you should have been inclined to pay more PLEX not less. 87 teams bidding for 32 slots should have given teams information that they may have to pay more per slot not less.

What reduced the prices of the latter slots was the fact that all the idiots had already over paid for their slots leaving only the sensible people left to bid. Also, at the start it was VERY clear that only 5 or 6 stupid teams were responsible for these inflated prices in each auction round, it didn't take a genius to notice this and take a slight gamble and wait to see if prices would normalise after these morons had won their places.

When an auction has a starting price of 10, having 20 as your opening bid is pure stupidity. Prices were going up in increments of 5 plex, it was hilarious to watch the idiots wasting their money bidding against each other in this way.
SpeedY G0nZaleZ
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#6 - 2012-10-27 23:08:32 UTC
The interface was open to everyone therefore of the 87 teams that "signed up" I would expect that only a fraction of them would actually put up the PLEX and have enough organization to show up and execute.

TEAMS COULD NOT DISBAND yo. This alone would inflate the numbers. How many teams had 1 character in them?

Yes, it was clear that there were out of control bidders and perhaps I got in too early.

There was no reason to withhold the information. The only reason I can think of is to keep the prices high because they suspected they would not get 32.
Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#7 - 2012-10-27 23:11:39 UTC
Seldarine wrote:
SpeedY G0nZaleZ wrote:
Obligatory "Right after I won a bid for 23 PLEX you announced the numbers of teams that entered through an open interface to be 87".

I am a little bit pissed that everyone after me had more information than I did. Knowing going in that there were 87 teams signed up with an open interface then I might have been able to work out that there would not be a ton of demand.

In all seriousness you either tell everyone or noone. It was literally right after I got a slot. And I did ask you in advance. /me points at thread.




lol

The teams bidding after you should have been inclined to pay more PLEX not less. 87 teams bidding for 32 slots should have given teams information that they may have to pay more per slot not less.

What reduced the prices of the latter slots was the fact that all the idiots had already over paid for their slots leaving only the sensible people left to bid. Also, at the start it was VERY clear that only 5 or 6 stupid teams were responsible for these inflated prices in each auction round, it didn't take a genius to notice this and take a slight gamble and wait to see if prices would normalise after these morons had won their places.

When an auction has a starting price of 10, having 20 as your opening bid is pure stupidity. Prices were going up in increments of 5 plex, it was hilarious to watch the idiots wasting their money bidding against each other in this way.


Why not though? 40 plex is such a small fraction of the operating cost of a tourney team, why not just put it up at the start and not have to bother with the wait?

Also, with only 87 teams signed for bidding through a completely free and open process, I am very surprised that almost 1/4 of them turned out to be legitimate. I would have put money on at least 9/10 teams singing up not actually have access to the plex, or being serious about bidding a slot.
SpeedY G0nZaleZ
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#8 - 2012-10-27 23:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: SpeedY G0nZaleZ
Dradius Calvantia wrote:


Why not though? 40 plex is such a small fraction of the operating cost of a tourney team, why not just put it up at the start and not have to bother with the wait?

Also, with only 87 teams signed for bidding through a completely free and open process, I am very surprised that almost 1/4 of them turned out to be legitimate. I would have put money on at least 9/10 teams singing up not actually have access to the plex, or being serious about bidding a slot.


40 Plex is about 23B ISK which could probably carry most teams through the tournament provided they didn't welp too hard.

As it stands I basically lit about 8B ISK on fire. I would not be complaining if the number of teams that entered did not get announced AFTER I bid and before the other teams did. Then we would have been all on the same playing field.

yeah even if it was 1/3 of the teams that showed up it would still not be enough.

Well :ccp: do something to make me happy.

Oh and BtW the reason there was not a lot of interest in the tournament is that the prize poll still isn't very good, even after you threw in the PLEX. It needs to be much higher considering that to win you will need to fight 13-16 matches to win.

The difference between this tournament and say a SC tournament is that zerglings don't cost in-game money. You just choose your race and play.

Anything with EVE is so prohibitively expensive that if you don't have that 1T+ ISK payout people are not going to go all crazy over 6000$ which works out to about 200B? ISK

Prize pool too small for the format. Non-level playing field. Quite possible that :ccp: hid the numbers to keep the demand in the auction high. People bitching about it on the forums. Business as usual I guess.

Edit: How about this CCP. Because we have to fight more matches than even the normal AT with setups that cost 75% as much why not kick in a few unique ships like 10 or so to each of the top 4 teams. And then re-open signups. They could be like that 2-person ship that you gave out or something rediculous that you love but really never got off the drawing board. Or something. It doesn't have to be PLEX it just needs to be something to justify the huge in-game cost of this effort for the winning teams.

Throw in a grab bag of BPCs from all the different pirate/navy factions that amounts to 500B ISK to the top 2 places. Or a grab bag of unique ships from history. Or something to bring the in-game prize pool up to a level which people will claw and scratch each other for.

And then open up the last few slots for auction once more and you will have a good tournament product.
Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#9 - 2012-10-28 07:35:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Dradius Calvantia
SpeedY G0nZaleZ wrote:

Stuff


I really do not think that the in game costs or rewards are what have turned people off of participating in this incarnation of the tourney. The limiting factor for participation among most of the high end PVPers I personally know is simply the amount of logistical effort, practice time, and theory crafting that goes into the prep for a tourny run. Not to mention the meta game efforts. It can literally be thousands of man hours of work required to field a competitive team.

Now add to that a drastic change in the way the format works (ship bans) which has all of a sudden exponentially increased the complexity of the way you have to design and test comps. Also, The new focus on teams as opposed to Alliances as the structure for organization which has shifted the work load from (in some cases) thousands of people on to at most 24. And It does not help that all this work will have to be crammed into an incredibly short time frame this time around.

When it comes down to it, I think CCP may have simply underestimated exactly what they are asking the competitors in the tourney to do. There are also some very big hurdles that stand in the way of EVE as an E-Sport which CCP will need to start addressing if they are serious about pursuing a more regular tourney schedule. These problems are very complex and really do deserve a more lengthy write up than I have time for here.... I may just have to start blogging or something so I can address them at the length needed....
Seldarine
Resolute Supremacy
#10 - 2012-10-28 09:45:08 UTC
Yep thats the reason there are so few teams.

Eve tournaments under this current format are just simply very hard to do and not many people are prepared to put that effort in.
Alekto Descendant
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#11 - 2012-10-28 18:13:01 UTC
You know, you could have been smart and asked how many teams had registered before you bid. I don't see how you can blame anyone but your own impatience in the fact that you wasted 40 plex.
Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#12 - 2012-10-28 18:42:12 UTC
Alekto Descendant wrote:
You know, you could have been smart and asked how many teams had registered before you bid. I don't see how you can blame anyone but your own impatience in the fact that you wasted 40 plex.



It was asked in channel, with one of the CCP devs saying that they were not going to release that information. Then, halfway through the bids another dev just randomly mentioned it.
Tyrus Tenebros
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-10-28 21:11:04 UTC
Dradius Calvantia wrote:
Alekto Descendant wrote:
You know, you could have been smart and asked how many teams had registered before you bid. I don't see how you can blame anyone but your own impatience in the fact that you wasted 40 plex.



It was asked in channel, with one of the CCP devs saying that they were not going to release that information. Then, halfway through the bids another dev just randomly mentioned it.

Speedy is right, but Selderine's commentary on the way the early bidding proceeded was way more at fault for pricing, and in theory the announcement should have bumped prices somewhat (which is in fact why my team initially was comfortable with the 21 PLEX we paid, expecting at some point a competition bump from more teams entering the bidding who had stayed silent to that point).

The fact that only 1/3 of the entered teams attempted a bid was unpredictable.

That said. It was silly for them to announce after previously not announcing it, but blaming your entry price on it being announced later is pretty silly.
CCP Dolan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#14 - 2012-10-28 21:29:50 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Dolan
We announced the number of teams when we saw the question asked, if it was asked earlier in the chat it likely slipped past our notice as we were trying to solve some technical issues with the voice comms before the auction began. We assumed that since we had previously given updates on the number of teams in this forum that this would not be a problem. This was a snap decision and was obviously not the best idea in hindsight. We apologize for this sort of error, and hope that you understand that live auctions are hectic for us as well.

The tournament team will be meeting to discuss the unexpected results of the auction and we will update everyone on our decisions as soon as possible.

CCP Dolan | Community Representative

Twitter: @CCPDolan

Gooby pls
Alekto Descendant
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#15 - 2012-10-28 22:21:06 UTC
Dradius Calvantia wrote:
Alekto Descendant wrote:
You know, you could have been smart and asked how many teams had registered before you bid. I don't see how you can blame anyone but your own impatience in the fact that you wasted 40 plex.



It was asked in channel, with one of the CCP devs saying that they were not going to release that information. Then, halfway through the bids another dev just randomly mentioned it.



http://pastebin.com/GT0wS1Nd

Show me were it was asked in that channel.

Oh wait, it wasn't.

You just blatantly made that statement up. GG.
Cas Mania
We - are peaceful people
#16 - 2012-10-28 23:30:40 UTC
Alekto Descendant wrote:
Dradius Calvantia wrote:
Alekto Descendant wrote:
You know, you could have been smart and asked how many teams had registered before you bid. I don't see how you can blame anyone but your own impatience in the fact that you wasted 40 plex.



It was asked in channel, with one of the CCP devs saying that they were not going to release that information. Then, halfway through the bids another dev just randomly mentioned it.



http://pastebin.com/GT0wS1Nd

Show me were it was asked in that channel.

Oh wait, it wasn't.

You just blatantly made that statement up. GG.


Actually I asked, [ 2012.10.27 19:04:40 ] Cas Mania > how many teams signed up?

Before it started, without an answer.

However the point is moot, I highly doubt it would have made little difference, unless the number was like 30 teams. Either way we really can't go into the past and change it and whats done is done.
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#17 - 2012-10-29 16:58:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk
I like how it was only when I asked that it got answered )) - two people asked before me and got IGNORED ))))))))

WAY TO SET SAIL FOR FAIL BTW ALEKTO LOL