These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

L4 active shield tanking
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-10-27 16:05:12 UTC
On an unbonused ship I've been considering the following:
2 x LASB
1 x XLASB
1 x XLSB + 1 x Heavy Cap II
All of these setups have four hardeners.

Now, the dual LASB setup looks pretty tasty; it'll tank @ 500dps with my skills against all rats and that's plenty for L4s (I've done fine with an @350~400dps armor setup in the past) but I have doubts as to how long it'll last in a pinch. The XL Shield Booster setup is pretty conventional from what I've seen, at least on bonused ships, so that is probably the safest way to go. Lastly, the single XLASB is amazing, putting out over 1000dps tank against all rats in any setup, but that reload time is murder so it seems like the riskiest setup.

I only have real experience with passive shield tanking so I thought I'd ask for opinions and first-hand experience. I'll be sure to check out my setup on a test server too, see how the micromanaging goes.

TIA

CCP has no sense of humour.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#2 - 2012-10-27 16:25:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Paikis
There are three rules that I consider to be very important for tanking mission ships. They are the following:
1. Always use a Damage Control. There are exceptions, but if you don't know what those exceptions are, then they don't apply to you.
2. Don't use ASBs on mission ships. Just don't do it. As above, there are exceptions, but if you don't know what they are, you shouldn't be doing it.
3. DPS+HPS>1,000 and HPS>300

My standard setup (I'll assume a Navy Raven) would be LSB, Heavy Cap Booster, 4x mission specific resists. You can swap a hardener for a prop mod or a target painter if you like.

EDIT: It may help if you tell us what ship you are using. There are fits that are generally accepted as the 'standard' which I can regurgitate for you.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-10-27 16:39:01 UTC
Paikis wrote:
DPS+HPS>1,000 and HPS>300

That's a sensible rule.

Paikis wrote:
EDIT: It may help if you tell us what ship you are using. There are fits that are generally accepted as the 'standard' which I can regurgitate for you.

Are there standard active shield fits for a Navy Domi?

CCP has no sense of humour.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#4 - 2012-10-27 17:02:05 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
Are there standard active shield fits for a Navy Domi?


Wouldn't say it's a standard fit (there are no "standard" Ndomi shield fits) but it works fine, just know that it's not an easy ship to use in this fit.

[Dominix Navy Issue, LVL 4 Shield Serpentis]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Field
Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Field
Caldari Navy Kinetic Deflection Field
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I


Garde II x5
Warden II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#5 - 2012-10-27 17:10:00 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Some Rando wrote:
Are there standard active shield fits for a Navy Domi?


Wouldn't say it's a standard fit (there are no "standard" Ndomi shield fits) but it works fine, just know that it's not an easy ship to use in this fit.

[Dominix Navy Issue, LVL 4 Shield Serpentis]


You (OP) would have to pick the one faction's ships I have no experience with :D I do know that the 'standard' for Domis is armour tanking though.

The fit above is almost exactly what I built in EFT while playing around with this ship, except my EFT fit wasn't quite as shiny and I honestly had no idea what to put in the rigs. I'm still not sold on the Solidifiers, but there really isn't a huge amount of choice.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-10-27 17:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Some Rando
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Wouldn't say it's a standard fit (there are no "standard" Ndomi shield fits) but it works fine, just know that it's not an easy ship to use in this fit.

Thanks, that's a good reference to play around with. My lows were pretty much the same but I forgot about the tracking link. Any particular reason why it's "not an easy ship to use" or is that purely because of the cap booster? I'm used to non-cap-stable setups in PVE and I'm not looking for an AFK boat.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-10-27 17:16:03 UTC
Paikis wrote:
You (OP) would have to pick the one faction's ships I have no experience with :D I do know that the 'standard' for Domis is armour tanking though.

In the past I've run armor sentry Domis because my skills line up best, but now that I've trained enough shield skills I've been eyeing all those lows on the Navy Domi. Lol

CCP has no sense of humour.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#8 - 2012-10-27 17:46:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Some Rando wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Wouldn't say it's a standard fit (there are no "standard" Ndomi shield fits) but it works fine, just know that it's not an easy ship to use in this fit.

Thanks, that's a good reference to play around with. My lows were pretty much the same but I forgot about the tracking link. Any particular reason why it's "not and easy ship to use" or is that purely because of the cap booster? I'm used to non-cap-stable setups in PVE and I'm not looking for an AFK boat.


It lacks the staying power of a tanky armour Domi, also because you only have one omnidirectional and you focus a lot of your slots&cap towards turret damage it's not a pure droneboat anymore and it's not a turretship either, it's now a drone/turret hybrid. This makes gameplay a bit more difficult, if stuff gets under your 350s then suddenly you're just a normal domi with a cap hungry **** tank, you can't do the "lazy Domi" routine in this one.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#9 - 2012-10-27 17:51:19 UTC
Paikis wrote:
There are three rules that I consider to be very important for tanking mission ships. They are the following:
1. Always use a Damage Control. There are exceptions, but if you don't know what those exceptions are, then they don't apply to you.


The exception is: You're doing things right, and you're shield tanking.

Seriously, if you need a damage control on your shield-tanked mission ship, you're most likely doing things wrong.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#10 - 2012-10-27 18:01:22 UTC
Paikis wrote:
There are exceptions, but if you don't know what those exceptions are, then they don't apply to you.


This pretty much applies to all 'Rules of Eve'


Lol

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Risien Drogonne
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-10-27 18:18:20 UTC
Which level 4 mission ships don't need cap boosters or ASBs?
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#12 - 2012-10-27 18:18:46 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
The exception is: You're doing things right, and you're shield tanking.

Seriously, if you need a damage control on your shield-tanked mission ship, you're most likely doing things wrong.


Shield tanking is not 'doing it right'. It is simply one way of doing it. It may or may not be objectively better than armor tanking in any given situation, on any given ship.

I will also point out that a damage control will give you a larger boost to effective hit points than ANY other module in the game. With regards to shield resistances in particular it is 'only' 12.5%, but that is an absolute figure and is not modified by stacking penalties. This means that your shield booster is effectively 12.5% better. It also more than doubles your hull EHP and adds 15% to your armor EHP.

When the person you are attempting to help says this:
Some Rando wrote:
I only have real experience with passive shield tanking

It could be a good idea to start him off with a damage control.

When you're a master tight-rope walker, you can scoff at the safety net. When you've never set foot on one before, it could save your life.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-10-27 19:37:05 UTC
Risien Drogonne wrote:
Which level 4 mission ships don't need cap boosters or ASBs?

From my experience:
Raven
Navy Scorpion
Navy Raven
Fleet Tempest

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-10-27 19:42:58 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Exploited Engineer wrote:
The exception is: You're doing things right, and you're shield tanking.

Seriously, if you need a damage control on your shield-tanked mission ship, you're most likely doing things wrong.


Shield tanking is not 'doing it right'. It is simply one way of doing it. It may or may not be objectively better than armor tanking in any given situation, on any given ship.

I will also point out that a damage control will give you a larger boost to effective hit points than ANY other module in the game. With regards to shield resistances in particular it is 'only' 12.5%, but that is an absolute figure and is not modified by stacking penalties. This means that your shield booster is effectively 12.5% better. It also more than doubles your hull EHP and adds 15% to your armor EHP.

When the person you are attempting to help says this:
Some Rando wrote:
I only have real experience with passive shield tanking

It could be a good idea to start him off with a damage control.

When you're a master tight-rope walker, you can scoff at the safety net. When you've never set foot on one before, it could save your life.

DC is nice.

However, just kill scram rats and warp out. No need to fit dc if you follow this simple tactic. Which frees up a slot for dps mod, or tank mod that is tailored for your tank.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#15 - 2012-10-27 19:52:08 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
Risien Drogonne wrote:
Which level 4 mission ships don't need cap boosters or ASBs?

From my experience:
Raven
Navy Scorpion
Navy Raven
Fleet Tempest


Add Machariel and Vargur to that. Tengu obviously. Rattlesnake.

If you spend enough on your tank almost any ship can work. Not that that's always a good idea.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#16 - 2012-10-27 20:13:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
All of those perform better with a cap boosted fit rather than a recharge based fit. Simple fact is that a cap booster just takes up one midslot whereas cap regen fits need lows, rigs and possible mids to make it happen, slots which are better suited for damage application.

In case of the (navy) raven you can put in Rigor rigs, those help your applied dps by a tremendous amount in most scenarios. it also means you can fit 4 BCS and while that may overall just add 5% it's STILL 5% and if you compare the cost of implants that do the same thing you'll understand the value of it.

The exception is the Rattler and Tengu, one has the slots to have both tank as dps and the other can fit rigors while still being stable.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#17 - 2012-10-27 20:52:53 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
[quote=Caleidascope]Add Machariel and Vargur to that. Tengu obviously. Rattlesnake.


Golem, too.

I'm flying a Nightmare without a cap booster right now. I haven't run into any cap issues yet. Usually, by the time the rats are all vaporized, my cap is still at ~25%. That's stable enough - not running out of cap while there are still rats to blast.
Risien Drogonne
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-10-27 22:08:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Risien Drogonne
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
[quote=Caleidascope]Add Machariel and Vargur to that. Tengu obviously. Rattlesnake.


Golem, too.

I'm flying a Nightmare without a cap booster right now. I haven't run into any cap issues yet. Usually, by the time the rats are all vaporized, my cap is still at ~25%. That's stable enough - not running out of cap while there are still rats to blast.

Yah, I'm not big on cap stable fits either. Cap only needs to last til the rats are dead. I just hate carrying around a bunch of cap charges and I wanna dump my Dominix.

The rattler seems like a good path. That way I can keep my t2 sentries.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#19 - 2012-10-27 23:59:43 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
All of those perform better with a cap boosted fit rather than a recharge based fit. Simple fact is that a cap booster just takes up one midslot whereas cap regen fits need lows, rigs and possible mids to make it happen, slots which are better suited for damage application.


That's true... if you want a cap stable fit. However, it's entirely possible to run an XL boosted Machariel, for instance, without a single slot dedicated to cap. Maybe throw some rigs if you're feeling finicky but it works without.

There's no reason to fit too many cap mods and gimp your damage -- and that includes cap boosters.
mama guru
Yazatas.
#20 - 2012-10-28 08:20:57 UTC
Has anyone tested an XL-ASB + MWD Machariel? It frees up an extra midslot for either a sensor booster or target painter. How would that affect completion time? a Sebo would definately help for the extra lock range that a mach needs to aquire targets faster at range.

EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak.
12Next page