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Goodbye eve - Wardec systems is broke still
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#21 - 2012-10-27 11:01:37 UTC
Can't you just disband the corp and make a new one?

Oh god.
Tetsuigablm
Channel Six News
#22 - 2012-10-27 11:02:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tetsuigablm
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Samoth Egnoled
Caldari Provisions
#23 - 2012-10-27 11:04:29 UTC
IN B4 Lockage
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#24 - 2012-10-27 11:04:45 UTC
Tetsuigablm wrote:
exploit is exploit
…except, of course, that there is no exploit. It's just you falling afoul of the exact mechanic that is there to make wardeccing an unpredictable and risky proposition.

There are still ways for you to get out of it, if you choose to.
Tetsuigablm
Channel Six News
#25 - 2012-10-27 11:04:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tetsuigablm
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Diva Ex Machina
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-10-27 11:04:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Diva Ex Machina
Tippia wrote:
Have you tried surrendering?


and

Riot Girl wrote:
Can't you just disband the corp and make a new one?


Curious to know if you tried either of these options.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#27 - 2012-10-27 11:05:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Tetsuigablm wrote:


He decced them and is now whining about it and the consequences. Wants hand held.


ummm, no? you think i would have bothered had i known the result? stop being a troll, no one needs you here, goodbye, exploit is exploit , pure and simple


We are saying that you should have known the rules of a War Dec before initiating one. You should have KNOWN this could happen. Then you come crying to people on a Forum who can do nothing at all. Who, exactly, doesn't understand the game ?

edit: If you call straight facts Trolling, then I guess I'm a Troll. First time I've had that leveled at me in 47 years.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-10-27 11:06:31 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Tetsuigablm wrote:
i deced a guys corp that was messing with some friends of mine, was a small 2-3 man corp, now he joins dec shield, dec shield takes the dec and mutuals it, then boots the 2-3 man corp out, they now PERMENATLY have a dec on my corp FOR FREE, a 500 man alliance


Welp, good for them. You wanted a Dec and you got it. I fully support CCP's decision.


You're not thinking it through. The problem isn't a bad wardeccer got more then they bargained for. That can happen even if you fix the system. The problem is that wardeccing anyone for any reason is becoming increasingly stupid and so is hiring mercs for defence, since you can always get a huge alliance to do it for free. Basicly all the goals the system tried to achieve are steadily turned to crap with the current implementation.

Making decs is becoming stupid because instead of having a short war that aims at specific targets, you are increasingly getting a "mutual" forever war with an entity you have no issues with. Just to make it blatantly clear the problem is the forever part. Being in a war puts limits on what your corp can do even mechanically, so it's bad, that you can be locked to such state without you having any ability to change things. Your only way out is to make a new corp and make alt corps for wardeccing in the future. It's a stupid system, that could be fixed by simply making mutuality require a weekly reconfirmation from both sides.
Wookie 1
#29 - 2012-10-27 11:06:32 UTC
Its WAD, CCP even confirmed this a while ago. Whether this system actually is a terrible, terrible brokeness, well thats for others to decide (I question if it doesnt discourage PvP and make carebears safe in Empire because of their shield decs)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#30 - 2012-10-27 11:07:37 UTC
Tetsuigablm wrote:
I dont quite remember seeing that anywhere, ever. If someone can prove me wrong, then fine, but im pretty certain INFINATE FREE WARZ were never intented to happen, otherwise why even raise the prices.......?
That's the entire point of making wars mutual: to make them free and infinite until either side surrenders, and to act as a revenge mechanism to lock in people in a war they started. It's been that way since, oh, roughly forever.
S'Way
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-10-27 11:08:03 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Can't you just disband the corp and make a new one?

Yes he could do that.

Also he got offered 500 extra targets for free - and is complaining about it ? Shocked
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#32 - 2012-10-27 11:08:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Silk daShocka
Pretty sad that your quitting eve because your either too lazy to make a new corp or just extremely butthurt that you can't blow up 3 guys.

I could understand your complaint if you were part of an alliance, but making a new corp is really no biggie.

Decshield is basically free mercenaries, sandbox and all. Now you know that when you wage war there's 500 free mercenaries that you may have to deal with.
Tetsuigablm
Channel Six News
#33 - 2012-10-27 11:13:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tetsuigablm
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#34 - 2012-10-27 11:15:24 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Tetsuigablm wrote:
i deced a guys corp that was messing with some friends of mine, was a small 2-3 man corp, now he joins dec shield, dec shield takes the dec and mutuals it, then boots the 2-3 man corp out, they now PERMENATLY have a dec on my corp FOR FREE, a 500 man alliance


Welp, good for them. You wanted a Dec and you got it. I fully support CCP's decision.


You're not thinking it through. The problem isn't a bad wardeccer got more then they bargained for. That can happen even if you fix the system. The problem is that wardeccing anyone for any reason is becoming increasingly stupid and so is hiring mercs for defence, since you can always get a huge alliance to do it for free. Basicly all the goals the system tried to achieve are steadily turned to crap with the current implementation.

Making decs is becoming stupid because instead of having a short war that aims at specific targets, you are increasingly getting a "mutual" forever war with an entity you have no issues with. Just to make it blatantly clear the problem is the forever part. Being in a war puts limits on what your corp can do even mechanically, so it's bad, that you can be locked to such state without you having any ability to change things. Your only way out is to make a new corp and make alt corps for wardeccing in the future. It's a stupid system, that could be fixed by simply making mutuality require a weekly reconfirmation from both sides.



They wanted a Dec and they got it. It's been this way for a decade, and is suddenly an ISSUE ? Sheesh................

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2012-10-27 11:17:14 UTC
Tetsuigablm wrote:
and how exactly should i have KNOWN, about this,did you even read the post i linked?
By knowing how wardecs works and thus being familiar with the concept of making wars mutual.

Quote:
A: im reasonably certain you cant surrender,
Have you tried it?

Quote:
B: i cant simply make a new corp, i dont think, it may be possible, but we live in a pos, which makes it complicated
So not actually impossible.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#36 - 2012-10-27 11:17:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Silk daShocka
Tetsuigablm wrote:
and how exactly should i have KNOWN, about this,did you even read the post i linked? please go to the links first. 1st page

i just re read the patch notes, and no dont see anything about an INFINATE WAR with anyone, do you?

A: im reasonably certain you cant surrender,

B: i cant simply make a new corp, i dont think, it may be possible, but we live in a pos, which makes it complicated

C: I, me not anyone else was engaging this corp, the others are all in the pos, don't try to make it sound like everyone was in on this, dont generalize if you dont know the spe3cifics please.


Take the POS down, make new corp, put new POS up, problem solved.

Like Tipia said, mutual wars been around for awhile.

YOu can just surrender, if the other side accepts it. Quit often a sum of isk may be required to grease the gears of diplomacy.

BTW you might want to edit out the message from teh GM, or eve may say goodbye to you.
Wolvun
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-10-27 11:21:58 UTC
Can i have ur stuffs
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#38 - 2012-10-27 11:22:33 UTC
Tetsuigablm wrote:
HOW IS BEING LOCKED INTO A PERMA WAR WITH A 500 MAN ALLIANCE VALID.


Why were you wardeccing a 3-man corp in the first place?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#39 - 2012-10-27 11:30:12 UTC
Byyyeeeeee, have fun else where!

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-10-27 11:31:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Tippia wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
The mechanic really shouldn't allow you to get stuck in free foreverwar with someone you weren't prepared to be in foreverwar with.
Actually, that's pretty much exactly what it's meant to do. It's to ensure that people don't wantonly engage in wars because they don't know what they might be stuck with.

I disagree. Eh, well, I agree being stuck in wars the aggressor initiated is a good mechanic. I'm fine with that, I like it. The problem, I think, is that this corp is stuck in a mutual war against an alliance they didn't declare war against.

I believe the idea behind the wardec system is that the aggressor can expect their opponent to make the war mutual or bring in allies. I do not believe the situation in the OP is a designed-for or desired feature of the new wardec system.

Dec shield, by the way, is (from what I know) a half-troll/half-serious alliance that exploited the 'war shedding' loophole of the old system on a large scale in an attempt to bring the loophole to CCP's attention.