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Sansha/NM or Angels/Mach?
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Arkanon Nerevar
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2012-10-23 20:22:24 UTC
Hey guys, want to get your opinions regarding a null ratting question, if you had availible angel and sansha space to happily generate isk in, which ship is worth investing in to maximise ISK/Hour, a Machariel for the angel space or a Nightmare for the sansha space?

For this scenario each would be the fairly atypical null dwellers pimped ratting ship, so liberal faction gear and moderate deadspace gear, decently skilld with the relevent turret dmg hardwirings. Whichever ship would be used for a mix of ratting and anom farming, belt ratting has the chance for big payout yes, but anoms has that higher more consistent payout I feel, im asking which has the highest ISK/Hour/Bounty-Ticks between the 2 rat types using the relevent ship, ty.

Trust Not in God, but Have Faith in Antimatter
bufnitza calatoare
#2 - 2012-10-23 20:36:55 UTC  |  Edited by: bufnitza calatoare
Arkanon Nerevar wrote:
Hey guys, want to get your opinions regarding a null ratting question, if you had availible angel and sansha space to happily generate isk in, which ship is worth investing in to maximise ISK/Hour, a Machariel for the angel space or a Nightmare for the sansha space?

For this scenario each would be the fairly atypical null dwellers pimped ratting ship, so liberal faction gear and moderate deadspace gear, decently skilld with the relevent turret dmg hardwirings. Whichever ship would be used for a mix of ratting and anom farming, belt ratting has the chance for big payout yes, but anoms has that higher more consistent payout I feel, im asking which has the highest ISK/Hour/Bounty-Ticks between the 2 rat types using the relevent ship, ty.



with a nearly maxed out mach pilot I was making 120+ m isk an hour running forsaken hubs with matar sentry drones.
same ship can run 8/10's solo when fleet booster was in local.

I would say a nightmare would be damn close in sansha space doing the same anoms.

but yeah

nightmare in sansha space and mach in angels.. yes a mach can shoot em ammo at sansha BUT you are going through the ammo like a whore goes through tricks. nightmare saves on ammo. t1 ammo NEVER breaks. faction ammo is cheaper than matar faction ammo by the mile.
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-10-23 20:53:31 UTC
Mach
Doddy
Excidium.
#4 - 2012-10-24 09:38:30 UTC
Not really tested it but i imagine it would be very close. The sansha tracking disruptors might bring it down in the machs favour though.
mama guru
Yazatas.
#5 - 2012-10-24 09:47:45 UTC
Flurk Hellbron wrote:
Mach


In Angel space.


Then again op: If you have ever lost a ratting ship to anything other than passing out infront of your keybord or being awoxed, you should probably concider a cheaper alternative to the mach/nightmare for nullsec.

EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak.
Blister X
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-10-24 16:47:39 UTC
Having flown both ships, I would agree it would be a very tough call to make. The Mach and the Mare are both capable of high dps output & tanking their respective rat types for long periods of time, but as was already pointed out the Mare won't suffer from reload times or having to re-dock every couple of hours for additional ammo. Im sure someone is going to come up with a nicely prepared mathematical formula for why which one is superior, so I'll just say go with the one your skills allow to to fly with greater proficiency.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-10-24 16:51:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Blister X wrote:
Having flown both ships, I would agree it would be a very tough call to make. The Mach and the Mare are both capable of high dps output & tanking their respective rat types for long periods of time, but as was already pointed out the Mare won't suffer from reload times or having to re-dock every couple of hours for additional ammo. Im sure someone is going to come up with a nicely prepared mathematical formula for why which one is superior, so I'll just say go with the one your skills allow to to fly with greater proficiency.


confirming this. both ships are equally fantastic at burning rats, so it's a matter of personal preference. personally, i prefer the nightmare because of low upkeep and badass spikes. the downside is 18sec align time and it is slooooooooow.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-10-24 18:58:48 UTC
Fighter drones, assigned to a steady hac... what can be better? A carrier is better and cheaper than a NM, MAch

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Doddy
Excidium.
#9 - 2012-10-24 19:19:33 UTC
Opertone wrote:
Fighter drones, assigned to a steady hac... what can be better? A carrier is better and cheaper than a NM, MAch


They are also slow getting on target and have less dps (you can only assign 5 to one hac). A carrier actually in the anom is better sure but is also a sitting duck.
Arkanon Nerevar
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2012-10-24 19:25:04 UTC
carrier is not something on the table opertone mate, asking specifically for the scenario i presented above

Trust Not in God, but Have Faith in Antimatter
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#11 - 2012-10-25 03:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Paikis
Nightmare. Because lasers are just better than projectiles. (Ignore the haters, lasers are better)

EDIT: Except against Angels, where the minmatards seems to do better because Angels just laugh at lasers. If you find yourself in this situation, just move, because no one wants to be minmatard Sheeple#26573 flying another damned Machariel.
bufnitza calatoare
#12 - 2012-10-25 04:21:41 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Nightmare. Because lasers are just better than projectiles. (Ignore the haters, lasers are better)

EDIT: Except against Angels, where the minmatards seems to do better because Angels just laugh at lasers. If you find yourself in this situation, just move, because no one wants to be minmatard Sheeple#26573 flying another damned Machariel.



me and a corp mate both flew into a drone hoard and each picked a rat of the same bounty in this case a battleship.

Machariel used faction emp ammo on 800 II's, I used IN MF crystals on my tachs.
needless to say. by the time the Machariel chased down its target and was putting the drone battleship into armour. I was one my 2nd battleship.

go the tach nightmares!
Arkanon Nerevar
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2012-10-26 23:58:36 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Nightmare. Because lasers are just better than projectiles. (Ignore the haters, lasers are better)

EDIT: Except against Angels, where the minmatards seems to do better because Angels just laugh at lasers. If you find yourself in this situation, just move, because no one wants to be minmatard Sheeple#26573 flying another damned Machariel.


sorry but youve misunderstood paikis & bufnitza, not asking for a comparison between the 2 ships on the same enemy, im asking if you would choose one for best isk efficiency for ratting purposes against their optimum enemys, the nightmare against sansha and the machariel against angels.

Trust Not in God, but Have Faith in Antimatter
bufnitza calatoare
#14 - 2012-10-27 10:32:32 UTC
Arkanon Nerevar wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Nightmare. Because lasers are just better than projectiles. (Ignore the haters, lasers are better)

EDIT: Except against Angels, where the minmatards seems to do better because Angels just laugh at lasers. If you find yourself in this situation, just move, because no one wants to be minmatard Sheeple#26573 flying another damned Machariel.


sorry but youve misunderstood paikis & bufnitza, not asking for a comparison between the 2 ships on the same enemy, im asking if you would choose one for best isk efficiency for ratting purposes against their optimum enemys, the nightmare against sansha and the machariel against angels.


nightmare for sansha.. I already know that I can make 120m an hour doing angels with a mach. and with a nm would use less ammo so more profit.
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#15 - 2012-10-28 10:27:56 UTC
Look up atypical in a dictionary. I have to say nm sansha and just liquidate everything from tachyon range while aligned to safe. If you're flying around is Mach you are more likely to miss local./not gtfo etc. just my opinion.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-10-29 14:08:44 UTC
i fly both and always Nightmare unless you are close to Ammo


Nightmare is the most underrated ship in the game. no one seems to know how to fit it and everyone forgets that Nightmares use very cheap Faction Ammo which Machs dont or it gets very very expensive very quickly.


Missions 10 minutes tops

angels 25 tops

also Nightmare 1100 DPS out to 100k

No other turret can do that dps at that range
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#17 - 2012-10-29 15:04:28 UTC
The only things that will make you more raw isk/hr in anoms than a Mach with tech2 gun, factions lows and HAIL in angel space is a super carrier anywhere, or a Blaster Vindicator in Guristas/Sansha Space. Mach has more "overhead" due to ammo, but nightmare WILL get slowed because of tracking disruption like the Vindi will lose time to jams. Angel EWAR is "LOL Target Painters" so the mach loses no time ever.

Nightmare is VERY good but not quite in the same league due to it's weapons, Pulses just aren't the equals of autocannons for pve (pvp is another story), and Tachs waste damage because like all long ranged turrets they are basically volley/alpha weapons (I laugh when people mention Tachs/1400mm Arties/425mm Rails and "DPS" in the same sentence lol). I mitigate the nightmare damage wasting but pairing the nightmare with an FoF Cruise Missle Navy Raven or Navy Scorpion and only shooting battleships with the Tachs once their shields are almost gone.

Burt the mach needs no help, just it's self (I don't even use drones), plus a smart bomb to kill the close orbit frigs and a web for the frigs that orbit just outside smartie range (so guns can kill them, again I hate using drones). I'd choose Mach over any other Anon-raping ship any day of the week TBH.
Arkanon Nerevar
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2012-12-31 14:50:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkanon Nerevar
Jenn aSide wrote:
The only things that will make you more raw isk/hr in anoms than a Mach with tech2 gun, factions lows and HAIL in angel space is a super carrier anywhere, or a Blaster Vindicator in Guristas/Sansha Space. Mach has more "overhead" due to ammo, but nightmare WILL get slowed because of tracking disruption like the Vindi will lose time to jams. Angel EWAR is "LOL Target Painters" so the mach loses no time ever.
.


with the changes in retribution many of the mach pilots i know (and myself) have seen fairly noticeble drops in our bounty ticks, in addition the capitol pilots are now smugly pointing out that their ticks are now consistently higher, how much is something that was debated on a far bit in alliance chat, people reported varying average ticks, with these changes do your comments still stand? has the carrier now overtaken pirate BS for isk/hr? if so would you say thana or archon (or one of the others, guys swearing by his nid)?, ty.

Trust Not in God, but Have Faith in Antimatter
Arkanon Nerevar
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2013-01-02 00:04:43 UTC
^^my above post is also to anyone with experiance on the subject.

Trust Not in God, but Have Faith in Antimatter
bufnitza calatoare
#20 - 2013-01-02 04:08:22 UTC
Arkanon Nerevar wrote:
^^my above post is also to anyone with experiance on the subject.



nah the carrier aitn taken over for isk per hour...

not in angel space anyways. my mach can top off at 42m a tick and more if I get a commander spawn.