Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It's lowsec numbers, the place where Drake should be beaten hand on by the hurricane. Truth, the real one, the one people actually doing pvp see, is that the drake is very popular in lowsec, way more than most other BC.

Remember, the Hurricane is OP, but it's nerfed. But if the Hurricane is OP, then the Drake is too, because there is almost as many of them as there is Hurricanes.

And after the nerf, Drake pilots will instantly have HAM, and HML will still be better than any other medLR turrets (you can check, they are used too, just not so much, but no doubt a missile pilot will use HML for the job).

Wow, that kind of invalidate your "argument" ?

And remember, something OP deserve to be nerfed, whatever the other conditions. If something else need to be buffed to compensate, that is a whole other matter, but I never saw you supporting more buff to HAM, CM and Torps.


This was about minmatar not skilling for missiles. A "truth" you wrote.

Yes, admittedly one can try to minimize angular velocity but in all reality with PvP if you are fighting short rage with LR guns you either are up against a bad opponent or did something wrong and are likely to have issues pulling it off.

The issue I have with this defense in that instead of looking at what HML's are now and trying to keep it we should instead be looking at what HAM's (and torp/cruise) should be and working towards that while putting HML in it's place. We have another balancing pass as well as Fozzie's confirmation that large systems are looking at some balance soon. As far as HML v HAM, soon we'll see if it's just that HAM is bad or if it's overshadowed by HML, OR if HML's advantages make it unimpeded in the areas where it currently shines.

Ok. You say the Drake is popular in lowsec. I didnt deny that. Now look at Caldari missile combat hulls overall used in lowsec. Esp. those in medium and large size. And now compare the numbers your get with the numbers of other races. Voila, there goes your overrepresentation. The Drake is used so much *not* because its OP, but because Caldari have *no other decent* missile PvP ship in medium and large. Other races DO have options, Caldari dont. Simple, eh?

Bouh, as long as you fail to see this its not helping to post in french or whatever. You will not get a clue of whats going on.

Its a bit like the Monty-Hall-Dilemma, if you know about that ... many people dont understand it if you tell it with 3 doors and 1 of them gets opened. They will understand it in the moment when you change it to 100 doors and 98 opened ;)

Imagine we remove every single working medium or large laser ship except one from the game, dont you think its numbers might get a bit too much? Or even more so with Projectiles .. dont forget: there are many Caldari pilots. Many of them chose Caldari because they were told its "easy to PvE" with them, which was true. And some of those started to feel like they want to do more than shooting NPC.



I dont see how it does invalidate any of the points I made. If or if not HAM will be good after the patch has to be seen, same as your other assumption :)



Then, Bouh, you have severe reading issues. Seriously.





I said most Minmatar pilots dont even bother with missiles because they dont need to. If they do bother with them, they have - oh wonder - fine ships to use. Would be nice if the same was true for Caldari. For Caldari it was until hybrid buff the other way round: they had sucky missile ships except the Drake/HML and wouldnt even think about skilling their hybrid ships,but instead crosstrain to Minmatar or Amarr.

Maybe they don't because they aren't. Or maybe they think the direct Cane nerf is going to reduce those numbers. Or maybe because they are currently analyzing the TE falloff effect and ship falloff bonuses. In fact, one of the devs in a thread a couple months ago posted that he sort of regretted the 10% faloof ship hull bonuses.

We don't know what other changes are in store. But Drake and Tengu usage and HML activations were sitting hugely on top. The stats on HM performance were clearly outclassing other weapons in the same role. And their strengths were stepping on the ultility of other missile systems. And as the OP said they had to be brought back into line to make any sense of the rebalancing of ship bonus efforts.

About projectiles, there is also the ship rebalancing.

Even without modifying projectiles, they are rebalancing minmatar ships. Rifter is not the top dog anymore for example.

PS : and the hurricane do have its nerf.

Yeah would be cool if you did. Would fit well to your Gallente char ;) but I meant the second, which I will check in a minute.

I showed you numbers of drake overrepresentation. Are you ignoring me ? Do you think I'm lying ? Do you know you can check these numbers yourself ?

I'm starting to think you don't do so much lowsec pvp.

So spend 4-5 months fixing what ccp broke ?
to get the gun skills to what they need to be to be worth anything its an easy 4 months at least.
I do not understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp every pilot should have a viable option to fly how they want to fly in EVE.
I should not have to retrain new skills just to get back to where I was before the nerf.

Why are you flying a cruise CNR for incursion fleets? Certainly a range extended torp CNR (60+kmish if i remember right) would do you much better if you INSIST on flying a missile boat.


That said incurstions are a poor place for a Missile ship when you're comparason is the Machariel and the Nightmare. Turns out Turrent ships suck against Sansha plexes (they tracking disrupt) and up north where FOF's are your best friend. Sometimes if you use the wrong tool to do a job, you can still get the job done, just not as well as the right tool can.

Also fit up any other battle cruiser for long range, with the largest sized long ranged medium guns. Now do the same thing with a drake. Which ones (<-trick part of the question is here)needed fitting mods and couldn't squeeze on a tank and which ones still bricked out near 100k hp while doing the long range bit.

Tell me more about how HML's aren't out of whack.

See ship rebalancing and hurricane nerf.