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Salvage drones - The final nail in the coffin for marauders?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#41 - 2012-10-04 03:35:11 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
I don't know about the effectiveness of other racial Marauder hulls, but as far as the Golem is concerned, the CNR is far more efficient for Lvl 4 missions, both in terms of cost and applied DPS.
…and it can't loot and salvage as effectively while doing so. That has always been the selling point of marauders, and it still is.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#42 - 2012-10-04 06:59:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…and it can't loot and salvage as effectively while doing so. That has always been the selling point of marauders, and it still is.


Seems like a crap selling point when it's far more efficient to drag an alt with a Noctis along one room behind you. Whatever works for you I suppose.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Serena Serene
Heretic University
#43 - 2012-10-04 07:19:57 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…and it can't loot and salvage as effectively while doing so. That has always been the selling point of marauders, and it still is.


Seems like a crap selling point when it's far more efficient to drag an alt with a Noctis along one room behind you. Whatever works for you I suppose.


Not everybody has more than one account.
Yeah yeah, in that case one is doomed to inefficiency anyway, and so on ... *sighs*
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#44 - 2012-10-04 11:28:22 UTC
Serena Serene wrote:
Not everybody has more than one account.
Yeah yeah, in that case one is doomed to inefficiency anyway, and so on ... *sighs*


Awww...cuddles? Cry

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#45 - 2012-10-04 13:52:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Ryan
Vargur works fine. Not waisting time in a noct. When I use mach I just skip loot/salvage. In the time it takes you to switch to noct loot/salavge I'll make more ISK and have more fun blitzing missions.


With the new AI drone loses are going to cut into your profits to much anyways so you might as well just carry salvage drones and launch them once the room is clear.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Serena Serene
Heretic University
#46 - 2012-10-04 13:54:45 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Serena Serene wrote:
Not everybody has more than one account.
Yeah yeah, in that case one is doomed to inefficiency anyway, and so on ... *sighs*


Awww...cuddles? Cry


I like cuddles :P
I'm not really sad about this whole inefficiency thing, though. I have more fun with only one character, with the possible exception of a same-account alt doing some hauling or market trading.

I don't really fly missions so I can't add too much to this discussion here, I just felt I should mention that while bringing an alt along might be more effective, not everyone has one.
Newbie Ned
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation
#47 - 2012-10-04 16:06:21 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
No offence at all intended to the OP, but you'd have to be a complete tard to salvage using a Marauder. It's always going to be more efficient to take an appropriately fitted Cormorant or Noctis along on an alt and use that instead.

And while we're talking about the Class type, why has the Golem only got 4 launchers FFS? It should have at least 5 and I'd prefer 6, with the last High being used for a Drone link.


OK I got as far as this post and there is clearly something I don't get (apologies if it has already been said). How can it possibly be more efficient to slavage with a cormorant/noctis??? If you have a second account DOUBLE YOUR DPS. Salvaging in a marauder takes somewhere between zero time and very, very little time, if you just go for BS wrecks, depending on your skills, the mission and how fast you can click. Using a second account just to salvage effectively halves your earning power. Madness, surely?
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#48 - 2012-10-04 22:34:02 UTC
People who think coming back after a mission in a salvage ship is faster than salvaging on the fly are too stupid to multitask or utilize a marauder properly. As already said, if somebody has an alt, stick him in a combat ship and double your DPS. A single account makes more ISK/H by completing the missions as quickly as possible while snatching all the loot he can without slowing down for it.

I pretty much given up arguing on this subject. Let em salvage in their lolnoctis and lolcormorant- keeps the LP from becoming more worthless.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#49 - 2012-10-05 01:09:23 UTC
The Vargur and the Paladin are the pick of the PVE Marauders. You can make far more ISK in Nullsec (aside from Guristas space) with a Marauder than a Faction BS in plexes because you can fit a much better tank to a Marauder than a faction BS.

The Kronos is the pick of the PVP marauders because you get the web bonus and can actually fit an ECCM. With Null you can do a reasonable job of hitting people at rangge. It is outclassed by the Vindicator, Navy Mega and Talos anyway, but it's still a reasonable PVP boat. Falcons don't exist everywhere and ECM drones will die to a smartbomb.

Salvage drones are not going to make Marauders obsolete any more than pimped T3's already do, or the Noctis does. Yes, you can clear missions faster with 2 people running BS's, but if you salvage it is better to bring a noctis. You can even bookmark the wrecks in each room into corp and leave it up to some nublet in corp.

Marauders need a rethink because their raison détre has been poached and encroached from so many various angles their circle of influence now looks like a venn diagram gone wrong.

Someone mentioned T3 Battleships. Well, until they rejigger the Marauder, if you take CCP Fozzie on his wword that T3 should do a T2 ships job a little worse, one wonders what the point of a T3 BS would be? If you take the role and capabilities of a marauder as a benchmark which the T3 ship cannot exceed, a locus analyser sub on a T3 BS would mean it has even worse tractor range.

Then you would maybe put on a sub for BLOPsing, and get even worse range and fuel use and a targeting delay.

Sign me up!

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#50 - 2012-10-05 20:03:05 UTC
Nikolai Dostoyevski wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
I really wish I had investing in aluminum at this point. You highsec pubbies just keep making hats. Frankly none of us give a care that you mission in highsec, the only problem we have with it is that you can make the same as we do out in nullsec with considerably less risk.


lolwut?

Null-sec blue space is dangerous?

To be fair, though, high-sec missioning isn't dangerous at all, unless you're in a pimped out PVE-boat that is gankworthy. I just don't think that a good chunk of the PvE done in nullsec is all that dangerous either. And the rewards are significantly higher to reward you for the effort to conquer, secure, defend and supply that space.



I have to agree with this.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
#51 - 2012-10-25 15:58:42 UTC
Salvage Drones will only remove the need to fit salvagers on your Marauder... that gives me 3 tractor beams to play with. :-)
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-10-26 11:57:04 UTC
Bart Starr wrote:
So ninja salvaging got a buff?

Now all ninjas need to do is fly into the mission and let the salvage drones rip, while the mission runner's drones are 4 killing frigs or other NPCs?

LOL.

Between this an the new AI, should be interesting to see how ninja tactics change.

Oh wait, I forgot. Crimewatch is going to kill the profession dead. Oh well.

You know full well that salvaging doesnt and will never give a suspect flag

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#53 - 2012-10-26 12:47:41 UTC
The Noctis did not obsolete Marauders, even if people proclaimed it to be the result of a specialized salvage vessel, and neither will the drones.
If anything, they will increase the value of Marauders as they get to maximize the effect of the super tractor bonus. Only change I'd recommend CCP consider is to increase the dronebays of the Marauders so that they can add the salvage drones without having to forego damage/anti-frig drones.
Lenny Snipes
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2012-10-28 03:27:52 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
How about buffing the ships bonuses?

buff the tractor bonus
add salvager/salvager drone duration reduction bonus
giving it an 8th utility highslot
changing the damage bonus to 225% instead of the 200% it currently has, (changing the damage from equivalent 8 weapons to 9)

shouldnt make it op for pvp as it doesnt change any of the reasons its bad for pvp but it makes it as good for most of the pve that it faces as any of the pirate faction bs if not better. while maintaining the mission focus. there are a few tweaks individual marauders that also need to get done, but mostly in pg/cpu or cap fittings.

and yes CCP is going after hisec missions, Nullsec cares what happens in hisec, and goons are terrible liars. what else is new though?
I dont know what CCP is intending to happen, i can only trust that they know, and that they will do a bad enough job of it that it hurts everyone equally.


^ This.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#55 - 2012-10-28 04:24:14 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Bart Starr wrote:
So ninja salvaging got a buff?

Now all ninjas need to do is fly into the mission and let the salvage drones rip, while the mission runner's drones are 4 killing frigs or other NPCs?

LOL.

Between this an the new AI, should be interesting to see how ninja tactics change.

Oh wait, I forgot. Crimewatch is going to kill the profession dead. Oh well.

You know full well that salvaging doesnt and will never give a suspect flag



I know full well that it does not currently. However, I do not know it may not in the future. There have been several good arguments given on it. Or has a Dev chimned in finally?

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#56 - 2012-10-29 02:15:01 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Do you guys seriously believe that CCP cares one whit about the Marauder class?

Every one of their most recent actions is a blatant attack on mission based ISK.

Let's see: wiping out Meta 0 loot, obliterating drone damage etc.
The dev's themselves have said that they want to migrate all mission boats into PvP fits.
How many PvP fits have salvagers and tractors?

High sec missioning will be a thing of the past within 3 more releases. The null sec zealots are making sure of it.

You somehow always find a way to incorporate those nasty 'null sec zealots' into your posts don't you?

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2012-10-29 06:52:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Hirimatsu Yamamoto wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Alexa Coates wrote:
see the problem with faction bs's is that they all cost 1b+ while a marauder costs +-800m, and can (arguably) tank better, which is what matters when you're flying a shiny ship like that.


no.


Why, thank you for that informative, and enlightening reply.

You'll have to poke this guy for like 3 pages to get a full explanation of his position, but he's right - those prices aren't entirely correct. Pirate BSs range from 500-600 mil for Rattlesnake, to 800-900 mil for Nightmare to 1.1-1.2 bil for Machariel. Another point to disagree with is that prices make world of difference. You want (at least for missions) a boat that suits you over boat that costs 200 mil less.

Even then, Rattlesnake would like to politely disagree with tanking argument.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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