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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5301 - 2012-10-26 09:11:13 UTC
Cazador 64 wrote:
OT Smithers wrote:

A couple years ago Caldari pilots really did have basically nothing but the Drake. And if you wanted to PvP and you showed up in a Drake people would kinda laugh at you.


Yes I remember trust me lol. I am glad I am not the only one that recalls these days.


Those people were wrong five years ago, let alone two. Lol

There's no shortage of idiots out there though. Just odd that most of them seem to fly Caldari. Well, they think they fly Caldari, they actually don't, because they don't have hybrid skills.
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#5302 - 2012-10-26 09:35:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Noemi Nagano
Gypsio III wrote:
Cazador 64 wrote:
OT Smithers wrote:

A couple years ago Caldari pilots really did have basically nothing but the Drake. And if you wanted to PvP and you showed up in a Drake people would kinda laugh at you.


Yes I remember trust me lol. I am glad I am not the only one that recalls these days.


Those people were wrong five years ago, let alone two. Lol

There's no shortage of idiots out there though. Just odd that most of them seem to fly Caldari. Well, they think they fly Caldari, they actually don't, because they don't have hybrid skills.


Although you will agree on hybrids were nothing one wanted to corsstrain to before they were buffed. They sucked a lot, esp. when not in damage bonused Gallente hulls ... so like OT Smithers said: a Caldari pilot interested in gunnery would have went Amarr or Minmatar. I for sure did. Although I have also Gallente .. so that maybe doesnt count then :D
Cazador 64
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5303 - 2012-10-26 10:33:37 UTC
The problem at this points is crosstraining from one gun skill to an other is not as bad as going from missiles to guns. I mean at the very least ccp could offer some free remaps to help even things out. Its pretty obvious a cross train is needed to continue playing. If I even continue. We will see where this leads I have strong doughts about the future of the missile caldari pilot
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#5304 - 2012-10-26 11:06:11 UTC
You cannot blaim others for not training gunnery. If anything the new T1 ships will have a greater use for missile ships and even though it takes time for you to get beter at gunnery I hope you have used the skillpoints to improve in other areas. It's all about choice and you cannot blaim others for your choice just because you thought caldari is a missile only race...
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5305 - 2012-10-26 11:21:24 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:

The 720mm Cane is actually very viable and used all the time actually but that's because of alpha win, the rest are pretty much never used yeah, but that can also be attributed to the tiering system which kinda gave the shaft to the Proph/Ferox/Brutix. The Myrm doesn't get a hybrid bonus so that's a no-brainer and the Cyclone suffers similar tiering problems which means its hard to shoehorn arties on it (although it's still amazing with ACs). Yes HMs being good is probably part of the reason why these ships never made it into a fleet doctrine like the Drake but the reasons I mentioned also contribute to the fail of medium LR guns. Also, if I'm not mistaken the Zealot is usually run with Pulses that can hit to 40km with Scorch.


All correct what you said here. Actually I dont wonder Jorma doesnt know this, because he seems to be an EFT-only warrior ..


Take your Rifter and warp to 100km from sniper Zealot and then come back here and say it's fail ship.

Zealots are proper sniper HACs. It lost its role when tier 3 BCs were intoduced.

Oh, and I already knew about how fail medium long range turrets are. It doesn't matter what you say.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#5306 - 2012-10-26 11:28:15 UTC
I'm pretty sure nobody said the Zealot is a fail ship..... Also, I'm sure there are sniper zealot fits but the more popular AB HAC fits are Pulse fit.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#5307 - 2012-10-26 11:53:22 UTC
Cazador 64 wrote:
The problem at this points is crosstraining from one gun skill to an other is not as bad as going from missiles to guns. I mean at the very least ccp could offer some free remaps to help even things out. Its pretty obvious a cross train is needed to continue playing. If I even continue. We will see where this leads I have strong doughts about the future of the missile caldari pilot

And gallente should have free drone skills because they need them so much and it's too hard to learn to skill tree at the same time ?

Poor thing, but it's not christmas, and even for christmas I would hope a better gift... Patience is a vertu, and you will have something to wait for your skills to train up.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5308 - 2012-10-26 12:00:40 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
I'm pretty sure nobody said the Zealot is a fail ship..... Also, I'm sure there are sniper zealot fits but the more popular AB HAC fits are Pulse fit.


It lost its sniper role when CCP added tier 3 BCs.

In case you still don't get it:
There's no working medium long range turret platforms currently.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#5309 - 2012-10-26 12:24:26 UTC
It also lost it's close range role when the harbinger was introduced and the tank role when the Legion was introduced...
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5310 - 2012-10-26 12:57:34 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
It also lost it's close range role when the harbinger was introduced and the tank role when the Legion was introduced...


I would like to see that 40+ km HPL Harbinger...
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#5311 - 2012-10-26 13:05:12 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
I'm pretty sure nobody said the Zealot is a fail ship..... Also, I'm sure there are sniper zealot fits but the more popular AB HAC fits are Pulse fit.


It lost its sniper role when CCP added tier 3 BCs.

In case you still don't get it:
There's no working medium long range turret platforms currently.


........ I never argued the Zealot lost it's sniper role to Tier 3 BCs, I was just commenting that you got defensive saying that someone posted that the Zealot is a fail ship when nobody did.

Yes I get it, you didn't bother reading my previous post as I agreed all medium LR turrets are crappy, and I also said nerfing the HMs will bring them in line with the other medium LR turrets....but somehow nerfing HMs to bring it line with something that basically nobody uses (except Arties) doesn't seem like the best balancing plan.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#5312 - 2012-10-26 13:18:15 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pinky Denmark wrote:
It also lost it's close range role when the harbinger was introduced and the tank role when the Legion was introduced...


I would like to see that 40+ km HPL Harbinger...


40+ km doesn't strike me as being close range - Maybe you meant to troll someone else?
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#5313 - 2012-10-26 13:25:21 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pinky Denmark wrote:
It also lost it's close range role when the harbinger was introduced and the tank role when the Legion was introduced...


I would like to see that 40+ km HPL Harbinger...


40+ km doesn't strike me as being close range - Maybe you meant to troll someone else?


I think hes referring to when I mentioned that Zealots are usually fit with Pulses/AB/Armor for fleets with 40km range, although you specifically mentioned close-range. Either Jorma doesn't have very good reading comprehension or we're completely missing what hes saying, probably the former =/
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5314 - 2012-10-26 13:44:44 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
I think hes referring to when I mentioned that Zealots are usually fit with Pulses/AB/Armor for fleets with 40km range, although you specifically mentioned close-range. Either Jorma doesn't have very good reading comprehension or we're completely missing what hes saying, probably the former =/


Try to create Pulse Zealot with less than 33 km optimal with Scorch. Good luck. You will need it.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#5315 - 2012-10-26 16:29:08 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
I think hes referring to when I mentioned that Zealots are usually fit with Pulses/AB/Armor for fleets with 40km range, although you specifically mentioned close-range. Either Jorma doesn't have very good reading comprehension or we're completely missing what hes saying, probably the former =/


Try to create Pulse Zealot with less than 33 km optimal with Scorch. Good luck. You will need it.


With LESS than 33km optimal? Why that's pretty hard, unless you don't bother training your HAC skill past 1.

Or did you mean more than 33km optimal? I didn't need your good luck or even have to put this fit together, just open pyfa, and link it.

[Zealot, AB HAC]

1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Damage Control II

10MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Medium Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

40km optimal, 70k EHP, 519m/s
Cazador 64
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5316 - 2012-10-26 16:29:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Cazador 64
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

And gallente should have free drone skills because they need them so much and it's too hard to learn to skill tree at the same time ?

Poor thing, but it's not christmas, and even for christmas I would hope a better gift... Patience is a vertu, and you will have something to wait for your skills to train up.


But it is Christmas for all Caldari we got a big ole FU from CCP
Hybrids are better then missiles as it is why, and would you need free drone skills?
Like no other ships use drones you know how those Drakes CNRs and SNIs have no drone bays after all.


Pinky Denmark wrote:
You cannot blaim others for not training gunnery. If anything the new T1 ships will have a greater use for missile ships and even though it takes time for you to get beter at gunnery I hope you have used the skillpoints to improve in other areas. It's all about choice and you cannot blaim others for your choice just because you thought caldari is a missile only race...


So I should take it on the chin because I did train Missiles ? And I should be blamed and punished for not training gunnery ?
I like your logic.
There are over 2 months worth of support gunnery skills that are universal to anyone who didn't train missiles.
If you can not see how it's much more easy to go from one gunnery skill to an other then I have no way to make you understand the predicament the Caldari pilot is in.

On top of and I do not know how many times I have to say this.
If a nerf hits so hard that it will force people to cross train because there are so few options then the nerf should not take place until CCP has a better option then cross training.
How often do you see the mim pilots cross train due to lack of options?


Gypsio III wrote:

Those people were wrong five years ago, let alone two. Lol

There's no shortage of idiots out there though. Just odd that most of them seem to fly Caldari. Well, they think they fly Caldari, they actually don't, because they don't have hybrid skills.


We all know hybrids are the better choice so what does that tell you for the missiles?
That they have very little options to be useful and the one use we did have if taking a nerf to put them in a place where people will have better options and no reason to fly Caldari missiles as all.
Do you call this balanced? because I sure don't
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#5317 - 2012-10-26 16:37:40 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Pinky Denmark wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pinky Denmark wrote:
It also lost it's close range role when the harbinger was introduced and the tank role when the Legion was introduced...


I would like to see that 40+ km HPL Harbinger...


40+ km doesn't strike me as being close range - Maybe you meant to troll someone else?


I think hes referring to when I mentioned that Zealots are usually fit with Pulses/AB/Armor for fleets with 40km range, although you specifically mentioned close-range. Either Jorma doesn't have very good reading comprehension or we're completely missing what hes saying, probably the former =/


I had the same impression about Jorma again and again. Apart from that he doesnt tell the name of his combat alt either.

Furthermore I agree with what you said about bringing HML in line with a currently unused bunch of guns - thats exactly what I said: better buff somehing which does not work than nerf something which does. HML per se is not OP at all, it just works well in 2 ships (Drake and Tengu) and it works also well, because the peers (MLRT) suck a bit at longer ranges (and, admitted, at closer ranges have tracking issues). I am pretty sure it would have been better to check what would happen if the natural counter to HML/Drake (the CM/Raven) and the MLRT peers would be buffed.

Anyway, we will have to see what Fozzie did. No way to change it right now, but hopefully it will be a better game/balance afterwards, and not just less missiles.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5318 - 2012-10-26 16:47:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
And Nomi doesn't know anything about what he is talking about.

And he still doesn't know what "power creep" means?
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#5319 - 2012-10-26 17:07:01 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
And Nomi doesn't know anything about what he is talking about.

And he still doesn't know what "power creep" means?


I do know about that. But fixing some not working stuff has nothing to do with power creep.
Lili Lu
#5320 - 2012-10-26 17:07:14 UTC
Holy ****, the whining still hasn't stopped. Roll