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Would i gain from adding a Target painter to my CNR
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Threshner
#1 - 2012-10-25 17:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Threshner
I have an extra spot opening in my mid slots with my skills increasing and i am curious if its worth adding a TP for my CNR to work with the cruises or is it worth it just to add more tank.

I run basically this set up

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/23851-Raven-Navy-Issue-Proper-CNR-mission-fit.html

except i do not use the 1.3bil booster and i am running 2 specific mission mods and 1 adaptive invuln instead of a target painter atm.

How well would the target painter actually help me out on DPS?

I am currently running 3 rigor rigs as well.
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-10-25 17:56:31 UTC
I had one on mine for a while and didn't really notice a difference, switched to a web and my drones seemed to kill frigs and cruisers faster. I have no empirical data to back this up of course, just casual observation. Course I don't shoot at frigs and cruisers as a general rule, I let the drones deal with them so that's probably why.
Threshner
#3 - 2012-10-25 18:42:07 UTC
Klymer wrote:
I had one on mine for a while and didn't really notice a difference, switched to a web and my drones seemed to kill frigs and cruisers faster. I have no empirical data to back this up of course, just casual observation. Course I don't shoot at frigs and cruisers as a general rule, I let the drones deal with them so that's probably why.



I agree with you on leaving the drones to take care of the cruisers and frigates. Its kinda annoying that a cruiser takes 3 volleys and is only worth 80k and a BC takes 2 and is worth 140k in bounty. I guess the best thing to do would to throw one on and give it a go.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#4 - 2012-10-25 19:09:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
It helps.

It may not help as dramatically as a web, but you're not going to web cruisers and BCs orbiting at 40-50km, and with the new AI, you'll want some kind of ewar to annoy the rats anyway. TP is perhaps the least effective for that particular purpose, but it still seems to help.

Except for in very rare occasions, a bit more damage is preferable to a bit more tank, since better damage application in and of itself means you won't need to tank as much.
Hoeto Popo
Memozian landslide
#5 - 2012-10-25 19:55:22 UTC
I started using one a couple of days ago and it seems to make about 100-250 damage difference, Im currently training the skills to 4.

I like it, makes a difference.
Velarra
#6 - 2012-10-25 22:20:35 UTC
Another question to ponder: Are you comfortable with Target Painter cycle times as you move from one target to the next?
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-10-26 01:23:55 UTC
Velarra wrote:
Another question to ponder: Are you comfortable with Target Painter cycle times as you move from one target to the next?


the delay is generally not that bad. A TP won't be omfg boost in damage on target so if you hop to next target its not like that 1st salvo won't be gimped too much painter less.

If one day you go torp golem a common fit is 2 tp. Common trick with2 tp is to stagger cycles if motivated. Fire up 1, then the next one say half way through cycle on the first. I found this tedious at times and generally did not overly care enough to do it much tbh.
Threshner
#8 - 2012-10-26 01:30:35 UTC
Ehh if i don't believe i would ever train for torps. The sad part about missile is honestly how much more training you need compared to every other race. I would much rather train t2 hybrids for a mach or something like that.

Good info on the TPs i may give if i a try!
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-10-26 09:00:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Marc Callan
I don't know about the Raven, but running faction missions in a stealth bomber, there was a noticeable difference when I fit a target painter; NPC industrials went down in six torpedo salvos instead of seven, and when you're in hostile territory and trying to dodge incoming fire, every salvo saved is less time you're in danger.

As for training: the T2 paths for missiles are actually a lot shorter than for turrets. The track for T2 torpedoes is Missile Launcher Operation V, plus Light Missiles III, then Heavy Missiles III, then Torpedoes V. For turrets, you've got to get every lower size of turret up to V, plus the T2 version of that size and range up to IV - for T2 large autocannons, you need Small Projectile V, Small Autocannon Specialization IV, Medium Projectile V, Medium Autocannon Specialization IV, Large Projectile Cannon V, and Motion Prediction V.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
UkaIS
Dammalin Industries Incorporated
#10 - 2012-11-07 12:43:12 UTC
Threshner wrote:
[...] I would much rather train t2 hybrids for a mach or something like that. [...]


You might want to reconsider this :-)
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#11 - 2012-11-07 15:13:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldensaver
UkaIS wrote:
Threshner wrote:
[...] I would much rather train t2 hybrids for a mach or something like that. [...]


You might want to reconsider this :-)

I was thinking much the same thing.

Marc Callan wrote:

As for training: the T2 paths for missiles are actually a lot shorter than for turrets. The track for T2 torpedoes is Missile Launcher Operation V, plus Light Missiles III, then Heavy Missiles III, then Torpedoes V. For turrets, you've got to get every lower size of turret up to V, plus the T2 version of that size and range up to IV - for T2 large autocannons, you need Small Projectile V, Small Autocannon Specialization IV, Medium Projectile V, Medium Autocannon Specialization IV, Large Projectile Cannon V, and Motion Prediction V.

Please don't start this. Because I guarantee you someone will counter "yeah, but then you are good to use your autocannon size of choice, and all it takes to get up the arty is the specialization roles, but if I want to use all sizes of missiles, I need to train up all the different specs just like you, and then I have to sill up a new weapon skill and specialization skill for the opposite range version."

It's just not worth it. People will disagree and it's not worth the cluster**** it'll make this thread. Personally, I don't give a ****. I'm going to skill it all up anyways, so I can't bring myself to care about the differences.

*Edited for profanity* I didn't realize it wouldn't censor compound words with profanity.
Nihi Lismus
A Lone Wolf Inc.
#12 - 2012-11-07 15:22:29 UTC
Threshner wrote:
train t2 hybrids for a mach

(mach = Machariel?)


pls! don't do that!

Helft dem Kleinkünstler!
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#13 - 2012-11-07 15:49:14 UTC
Nihi Lismus wrote:
Threshner wrote:
train t2 hybrids for a mach

(mach = Machariel?)


pls! don't do that!




Confirming that Blaster Machariel sucks. Tachyon is the way to go.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#14 - 2012-11-07 16:04:55 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Nihi Lismus wrote:
Threshner wrote:
train t2 hybrids for a mach

(mach = Machariel?)


pls! don't do that!




Confirming that Blaster Machariel sucks. Tachyon is the way to go.

Arty Nightmare is superior.
Threshner
#15 - 2012-11-07 23:21:38 UTC
LMAO wow i said hybrids on a mach. Completely lost track of this post.

Major fail =P
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-11-08 08:20:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Velarra wrote:
Another question to ponder: Are you comfortable with Target Painter cycle times as you move from one target to the next?


Flight time actually works in your favour, unless stuff is really close in, as you have the entire missile flight duration to get it applied. Most stuff gets two vollied so it's rare to miss a TP on a target once you get your timing right, also on some targets though its s two volley kill, only one needs to be painted so you can preemptively switch over

I use two PWNAGE and fury missiles on my mission boat and man...what a difference.
Mra Rednu
Vanishing Point.
#17 - 2012-11-08 09:20:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Mra Rednu
Threshner wrote:
The sad part about missile is honestly how much more training you need compared to every other race. I would much rather train t2 hybrids for a mach or something like that.



I'll let the hybrids on a Mach slide cause it's an obvious one, nice troll on missiles needing more training than guns though :)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#18 - 2012-11-08 12:45:33 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Nihi Lismus wrote:
Threshner wrote:
train t2 hybrids for a mach

(mach = Machariel?)


pls! don't do that!




Confirming that Blaster Machariel sucks. Tachyon is the way to go.

Arty Nightmare is superior.


But Tachymach just sounds better.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#19 - 2012-11-08 12:48:38 UTC
BTW don't forget that Torps (and HAMs and Rockets) are going to get a LOT better on Dec 4th.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#20 - 2012-11-08 14:04:30 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
UkaIS wrote:
Threshner wrote:
[...] I would much rather train t2 hybrids for a mach or something like that. [...]


You might want to reconsider this :-)

I was thinking much the same thing.

Marc Callan wrote:

As for training: the T2 paths for missiles are actually a lot shorter than for turrets. The track for T2 torpedoes is Missile Launcher Operation V, plus Light Missiles III, then Heavy Missiles III, then Torpedoes V. For turrets, you've got to get every lower size of turret up to V, plus the T2 version of that size and range up to IV - for T2 large autocannons, you need Small Projectile V, Small Autocannon Specialization IV, Medium Projectile V, Medium Autocannon Specialization IV, Large Projectile Cannon V, and Motion Prediction V.

Please don't start this. Because I guarantee you someone will counter "yeah, but then you are good to use your autocannon size of choice, and all it takes to get up the arty is the specialization roles, but if I want to use all sizes of missiles, I need to train up all the different specs just like you, and then I have to sill up a new weapon skill and specialization skill for the opposite range version."

It's just not worth it. People will disagree and it's not worth the cluster**** it'll make this thread. Personally, I don't give a ****. I'm going to skill it all up anyways, so I can't bring myself to care about the differences.

*Edited for profanity* I didn't realize it wouldn't censor compound words with profanity.


Anyone who argues that missiles are harder to train for is wrong. Mostly people who use missiles and no guns argue this because they are carebears who live off missions.

So i'd stand by his statement.