Ships & Modules

Except that you simply can't achieve some fits, even with Lvl 5 skills, without the use of Faction modules. So not a hard and a fast rule.

Also, if the Faction counterpart is better and it's use can be employed properly then it's not bling in my view.

I haven't tried a TFI for PvE, but i would have thought that a drone damage amp would be better than a 4th BCU.

Vanilla T2 fit Maelstrom seems a better mission boat than Phoon, just saying.

The answer, as with all things, is, it depends. It depends on the rats, the range, the objectives, and the fit. Regardless, this thread is about the Fleet Phoon, which is quite a better ship than the regular Phoon. And it will do a better job than a Mael in the right missions and against the right rats.

This ship is my favorite, second would be the Navy Domi. Both ships benefit greatly in missions from a full flight of sentry drones. For that reason anyone fitting a 4th or possibly even a 3rd ballistic control is probably better served by a drone damage mod instead. Also, with one faction power diagnostic or an ACR rig you can fit 3 x 1200 arty and a prop mod. A mission fleet phoon should not be fitting a tractor and salvager, that is for your alt in a noctis to do.

So its an over-priced niche boat, that has a slight advantage in 2-3 specific missions? Please explain where the Phoon (fleet or otherwise) beats out the Mael as a PVE isk machine. My Mael can run ANY level 4 without dead-space or officer mods, and run them faster I daresay.

You offer absolutely no specifics in either of your posts yet demand specifics from me? I would frankly just like to tell you to **** off you snotty kid, but I'll give you some specifics anyway.

The Mael is of course better against angels. It is made for them. Angels tend to do explo and kinetic damage. The Maels shield tank is less stressed by that. The angel ewar doesn't really hurt the Mael because the sig is already large and requires no defensive mod to combat it. Also, the Maels tech II ammo is doing the right damage types to kill angels. And the angels tend to want to get in close. The Mael has much more strength with ACs. Because of the closer ranged rats the Maels best weapon configuration is well suited for them. The fleet phoon's armor tank is harder to configure against angels. The weapon systems are not really a problem, but the weakness of the tank eats into the damage potential through leaving less slotage for damage mods.

Now put yourself out against blood raiders. Your shield tank is going to get stressed. The em and thermal damage requires more hardener modification to your shield and it also is further stressed from the neuting that blood raiders do. If you choose to fit a cap injector you've just lost another slot for the badly needed hardening on your shield. ACs are not as advantageous against a foe that tends to sit at a significantly farther range than the Angels. And, your tech II ammo is precisely the worst damage types. Conversely, the fleet phoon has a very available mid for a cap booster to combat the neuting. It also starts out with a much higher base and native reists to the em and thermal damage of the blood raiders. Lastly it can use the appropriate damage type of tech II ammo.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this **** out. And if you approach this game thinking one ship is universally best for every mission you are being incredibly uncreative and plainly wrong.

This is tangential to my point but, you're absolutely correct, people should fly what they want.

No you.

Just because you don't mission in amarr space or for an amarr or caldari agent doesn't mean noone else does. You think Blood Raiders are niche? How about Sansha? How about Guristas? etc. You display a remarkable ignorance of the game. Surprise, missions are not all against angels and serpentis or in Minmatar space. But keep on with your narrow perspsective and thinking that your Mael is universally better in all situations.

If you think noone uses tech II ammo you are further ignorant. If you think tech II ammo is too expensive then I feel quite sorry for you. Try faction ammo Of course you probably wouldn't know because I sense you have no experience outside of Minmatar ships, but lots of missioners in Amarr ships regularly use scorch.

I never said a Mael can only use ACs. I said it does better with ACs. Sure you can put arty on it for range. But that does cut down your dps. And, how is that making your em/therm tank any better? And I didn't say you couldn't fit a cap booster. I said if you do it is cutting into your ability to tank em/therm damage. Learn to read, moron.

Yeah, surprise, low slot tanks are possible. If you have 8 frickin lows it's even more possible. Do you have any experience armor tanking anything? Regardless if you think it's so terrible noone's forcing you to expand your knowledge of this game. But the op wants some advice. God help him if he takes it all from your limited perspective and experience.

edit - For Hakaimono, yes, it is very skill intensive to get the best out of this ship. Once there it is better than Mael in the appropriate missions. You need tech II weapons (and omg tech II ammo how is that affordable) in all three modalities, projectiles, missiles, and drones. My favorite setup are ranged setups with Cruise II, 1200 II, and sentry II drones. It is a very active missioning. You have to be constantly evaluating the damage each is doing to a target. Sometimes it makes sense to split your damge over more than one target due to the strengths and weaknesses manifesting for each weapon. Most missioning is not like that. Sometimes I'm in the mood. Sometimes I'd rather just use a Domi. But when you are in the mood it is efficient and better than using a Mael in the wrong situation.

I mission in Amarr space and quite a bit in Caldari space. My ability to read is quite satisfactory. What is lacking is your reading comprehension and critical thinking skills, about the only thing you've expressed an over-abundance of is the ability to make assumptions.

Ponder this genius, you claimed a cap booster was available to the Phoon to keep cap up under neuting... you see where my sarcasm came into play and where this is going now? Or are you too dull-witted?

Normally people frown on Tech 2 or faction ammo being used in missions, not because its wrong, but because its counterproductive to the purpose of missioning, i.e. farming isk. See, that's where those basic math skills will come in handy. Start talking about Marauders, Nightmares (double-damage bonus ships) and those ammunition types become viable again from a cost standpoint.

I was giving the OP advice, get a Mael, it allows the most flexibility in that you only need one ship.

I posted on 4:49. You on 5:20.
Is not grounds for jinx.
Nice try though ;P