EVE General Discussion

This is simply not true. You can quite easily get profit margins of 50% and higher in the T1 market (though ammo is actually one of the worse T1 items to sell). But it takes more effort and salesmanship then the T3 market for example. Also the overall profit per production slot is lower due to the limited value of the items. This makes it less interesting for big-time billionaire industrialists.

Key to T1 production is either selling in bulk to the T2 industry or the RvB ship grinder. Or increase your profit margin in return for providing convenience in areas where you'd usually have to visit several stations to complete a fit (like low-sec FW systems).

And with a bit of market research you can make even make good money in Jita with T1 production by paying attention to new developments and temporary gaps in supply and demand (like Hulkageddon doubling the price of Catalysts and even quadrupling the price of small neutron blasters.

I think the reason why you can so often find Meta 1 to 3 at prices below T1 productions costs, because even at a super-hub like Jita low-meta supply is unreliable at best. So customers looking to fit a low-budget ship don't bother checking the availability of all the numerous meta options and simply fitting Meta-0.

Because of this, there isn't enough actual demand to effect the prices. Most of the influence seems to be coming from T2 researchers instead, who look mostly for Meta 3 and Meta 4, I think. This, and some EFT-warriors needing the lower fitting requirements of Meta 4 over T2, for their super-tight fits.

Shame shame shame.

You've let the truth get in the way of a good argument.

Eventually, at least this is what happen to me, you reach a point where your skills give you a high enough success chance on T2 ivention that using meta 3 and 4 modules in the invention process becomes an unneeded isk amount.

But that doesn't account for the items that people actually use, but don't use the player made version; they're using npc variants pretty much exlusively.

I do not see any reason for a gun to drop off an NPC that's only difference between the player made variant is that it will increase your damage by 2%, everything else is the same. That 2% extra damage on the damage modifier is enough to make the player made version obselete, because everyone will take the 12% damage modifier over the 10% one every time.

1400mm howitzer artillery 1 is 2% less damage than the scout variant. You can not build the howitzer for less than the scout variant is sold, and the scout variant is not being purchased for mineral conversion in null sec.

A 1400mm "scout" is the same frigging stats as the T2 version; it sells as well as and for as much as the T2 version; but has the same skill requirements as the the Howitzer version.

The playermade howitzer is made obselete by a considerably better, and more affordable, item that is dropped off an NPC. I can not sell the slightly worse version cheap enough that people would buy it.


Tippia claims that I am wrong, and tha there are no NPC variants that have better stats and make player built items obselete.

Either the in game information on that gun is wrong, or I'm incredibly ******* stupid.

That's not how Meta works. No Meta 0 is better than a Meta 1 or above. Even Launchers which don't have a lot of stats like other weapons will have a higher refire and less cpu than the Meta 0 variant.

There was a time when people did fit Meta 0 because they were using T1 longer, Meta loot wasn't as abundant and was much more expensive. Many of the requisites for T2 have been scaled back and people aren't fitting t1 as long as we did 'back in the day'.

Trust me, calling for higher reproc on meta or anything that makes them more expensive to have only benefits me. I just know I will never see that day.

If you build T1 items, than yes it effects you.

If you only build T2 items or don't build at all, than no it doesn't effect you.


The stats of items do not change based on who uses that item. Everything in the game has the same stats for you that they do for me. I can not make up the stats for meta 4 items or imply that meta 4 items are better then a lot of the player made items when they aren't; they are.

Damn near every ******* person who posted in this thread has said the same thing, T1 manufactured items don't sell, and they're only good for T2 production. I didn't make a single person write that, and they sure as **** ain't my alts.

The only disagreement is that everyone else seems to think that that is ok, and as a full time industrialist I do not.

Miners should want player made items to sell better, because they actually use the minerals that the players have to gather. Industrialists should want to be able to sell those T1 items because they would make MORE isk off the **** they build.


I'm not asking for anyone to be nerfed or anything remotely drastic, just for the remaining T1 items that players build to have priority over **** that drops off of NPC's.

I didn't realize that was so awful and looked down upon in this player driven sandbox game we play.


BTW, read a bit. I manage almost 200 market orders, almost all of it stuff I build. The hell do you think I'm not making any money off T1 products. Where in the world did I ever imply that I don't.

It doesn't change the fact that there are SOME ITEMS STILL that are made obsolete by meta 4 variants.

Why are you apposed to being able to make a profit off every player made item; without having to do invention to turn it into a T2 product.

Then do not build that small handful of items that are that way. You are this bent out of shape over a small hand full of items?
When you are making isk on over 200 items that do sell? I do not understand your beef at all.

But you did imply in another thread that you are not making any isk on T1 because of traders that undercut you.
That however is PvP.

So then you come up with this thread. Bent out of shape over a small handfull of items.
It sounds kinda like you did not do your homework first on these items and built a bunch only to find out you are stuck with them. Then dream up this thread.

Never once have I ever said that I don't make money on T1 items, not once, ever.

There are some items that are IN HIGH DEMAND that you can't sell the meta 0 version for. Stuff like the 10mn MWD, that damn near every time the right sized ship is purchased, that modules is also purchased. I sell dozens of the loot dropped ones every day, I'm lucky to sell 1 or 2 of the meta 0 in a week. And someone is always selling them at a fraction of what it costs to build the meta 0 one, no item should do that to anything a player builds, ever.


PS: not a single one of you has made a single arguement as to why all T1 items built by players SHOULD NOT be better than the loot dropped items.

Why shouldn't every T1 item be balanced liek the Adaptive invuln?

Why is it ok for a meta 4 gun to drop off a mob that has the same stats at the T2 version but only have the skill requirements of a T1?

NOW I get it. Heritage!!!

Errr... THAT way >>>>

If Meta 0 was better than Meta 1-4.
Then mission runners/Ratters/Miners killing annoying rats would get below mineral value for their loot.
Because Meta 1-4 would be utterly worthless & at that point might as well be removed from the game. No loot drops, just bounties! Just like drones are currently.

Basically you are asking for your play style to be buffed at the expense of a whole lot of other peoples play styles being nerfed.

That's why Meta 0 shouldn't be better than meta 1-4.