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Warfare & Tactics

 
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CCP MASIVE FAIL

First post
Author
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#41 - 2012-10-25 19:14:51 UTC
teroarea wrote:
Why did u move this topic?
Because Warfare and Tactics is a better forum for discussion about issues related to wardecs?
OsirisShi
ROMANIA Renegades.
#42 - 2012-10-25 19:17:26 UTC
So, first of all stop trolling all that are not involve in this and cant do a proper reaply to this matter.
Second yes we are bad at english .
The point is we are not affraid of this war they have 10 almost inactive players.
We dont have option for surrender,abord or what ever u want to exit this war, not even an option to give money or other metod to play some fee.
We haved been transfered to a senior GM and the answer was the same: Disband the corp!(This is the massive fail)
For all that cant understand we cant f****** disband a 10 years old corp because ccp cant find a solution to this matter, i rather say exploit that are using this guys for blocking us to enter an alliance.
So the big problem is We cant enter any alliance because of this **** war and we want a solution to end or even the possibility to apply to any alliance we want.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#43 - 2012-10-25 19:29:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Gogela wrote:
This puts a big smile on my face. I'm glad that wars mean something again and dec-shielding has gotten so much harder. I agree w/ the GM... you should disband your corp in shame and start another one, endeavoring to make better alliance and war choices in the future. +9001 to CCP for the new WarDecs!

/feature working as intended. Lol

On many levels of the war dec mechanics I agree, but not on this one.

You should not be able to trap someone in a war dec through complete inactivity.

If you want to trap someone, that's fine, but it should require some effort and outlay of ISK to achieve.

That being said, they DO have an option (disbanding) which they may have to seriously consider, but I am siding with the opinion that nobody should be forced to that decision due to a LACK of action on their opponents part.

This mechanic is not encouraging the intended use of the war dec system, in fact it is strongly discouraging it's use.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Slasher88
BURN EDEN
#44 - 2012-10-25 19:51:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Slasher88
Wow this is a very bad idea on ccp's part i mean they passed out on all that isk if the war is declared mutual .

On the other hand i am wondering how much time did they spend on this idea since there is no exit strategy other than of course the mutual agreement. But thinking about this some more anyone can create a corp put it into a alliance that is being wardeced and then inherit the was and declare mutual and hunt the wardeccing alliance/ corp until ccp decides on a alternative option or shuts down the server . That would serve very well with the old war deccing like Moar Tears Privateers and co :) . I don't think anyone would want a perma war with those guys esp the 0.0 alliances . I thought the new price for war was to prevent these stupid war decs and make the real ones more fun but since this loophole exists and well it has been deemed a normal game mechanic it will probably become a normal thing in new eden in a few days . Yes u need to fall in for the trap as u need to do the wardec but some ppl never read ....


All i would like to say further is ...

IN B4 IT HAPPENS TO GEWNS AND THE MECHANIC IS CHANGED BY MASS PETITION




OFC : I forgot about the disband thing but that is just simply ******** imagine disbanding a corp like dreddit or smth with 8k players
Dan Carter Murray
#45 - 2012-10-25 20:21:42 UTC
unfortunately, you joined an alliance full of dumb fucks who drop dreads on BC fleets of fellow militia members outside a station which they can redock in.

next time maybe talk to some of the diplomats or higher ups in the alliance and try to feel out what % of dumb **** they are.

there definitely is a certain acceptable % of dumb ****, but Happy Endings alliance is not only full of high % dumb fucks but also have a high % of their members as high % dumb fucks.

I suppose your only choice is to meet the demands to stop the war or abandon your corp and restart.

working as intended.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com

Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-10-25 20:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Andre Vauban
This is an absolutely horrible mechanic. CCP will not fix it. At some point, Dec Shield Alliance will grow big enough to effectively block every single corporation in Eve from ever joining an alliance and then maybe CCP will fix it.

To clear things up, here is how the relevant mechanics work:

1. You cannot join an alliance if you are an aggressor in a war
2. If a corporation leaves an alliance that is at war, it declares war (ie becomes the aggressor) against all the corps/alliances at war with the alliance you are leaving.
3. If a corp who is a defender in a war joins an alliance, that wardec is transferred to the alliance with the alliance as the defender.
4. The defender can set the war mutual, which creates a forever war, at any time and all the above rules still apply

So, the only way to ensure that you cannot be indefinitely blocked from joining an alliances is A)Never declare war and B) Never leave an alliance who is at war.

We actually fell victim to this by a specialized type of militia griefing corp. They join a militia and then start ganking friendly militia. They use the militia standing "feature" of having some high standing chars to offset the standing loss. Other militia corps cannot really engage back because of the standing loss issue. They wait for a militia corp to be sufficiently annoyed to wardec them. Once they are war deced, they join an empty alliance, set the war mutual, then ransom you. At this point the militia corp can never join an alliance. The greifers can either abandon the original corp or drop alliance and keep baiting more militia corps.

It is actually a very intelligent griefing concept taking advantage of CCP's HORRIBLE game design that still applies to rules to mutual wardecs.

.

Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-10-25 20:32:05 UTC
Slasher88 wrote:
Wow this is a very bad idea on ccp's part i mean they passed out on all that isk if the war is declared mutual .

On the other hand i am wondering how much time did they spend on this idea since there is no exit strategy other than of course the mutual agreement. But thinking about this some more anyone can create a corp put it into a alliance that is being wardeced and then inherit the was and declare mutual and hunt the wardeccing alliance/ corp until ccp decides on a alternative option or shuts down the server . That would serve very well with the old war deccing like Moar Tears Privateers and co :) . I don't think anyone would want a perma war with those guys esp the 0.0 alliances . I thought the new price for war was to prevent these stupid war decs and make the real ones more fun but since this loophole exists and well it has been deemed a normal game mechanic it will probably become a normal thing in new eden in a few days . Yes u need to fall in for the trap as u need to do the wardec but some ppl never read ....


All i would like to say further is ...

IN B4 IT HAPPENS TO GEWNS AND THE MECHANIC IS CHANGED BY MASS PETITION




OFC : I forgot about the disband thing but that is just simply ******** imagine disbanding a corp like dreddit or smth with 8k players


Well, right now Manifest Destiny is locked in a mutual war with Goonswarm Federation. If somebody could disband Goonswarm Federation right now, then all the Goon corps would drop alliance and automagically declare war against Manifest Destiny, at this point Manifest Destiny could set the war mutual with each of the corps thereby preventing any of those corps from ever joining a new alliance. Pretty cool, huh?

.

Val Erian
Azure Horizon Federate Militia
#48 - 2012-10-25 20:41:28 UTC
Sounds like a horrible mechanic.


to the OP Emperor Throne Guards is an alt corp .

You should contact Bad Messenger he's usualy online.:)

I'm sure he'll discuss terms with you. You probaly wont like them tho.
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
#49 - 2012-10-25 20:54:42 UTC
teroarea wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
Off topic posts removed.

Moved from EVE General discussion.


Why did u move this topic?....the topic was fitting perfectly in general discutions ......do i have to understand that u guys want to cover this topic for the plain reason that u dont have a honest answer to my questions?



More importantly why did they delete my post which summarised your post for everyone unwilling to read it? Sad

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons
Silver Dragonz
#50 - 2012-10-25 21:15:04 UTC
I read about 90% of the posts...and a few questions pop up.

Who is the other corp?

Have you tried hunting them out and seeing if they are inactive (rather than just ignoring your pleas for surrender)?

What do I need to do to get in on this action, I can see ransoms paying out nicely for situations like this. Twisted
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-10-25 21:17:16 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
Well, right now Manifest Destiny is locked in a mutual war with Goonswarm Federation. If somebody could disband Goonswarm Federation right now, then all the Goon corps would drop alliance and automagically declare war against Manifest Destiny, at this point Manifest Destiny could set the war mutual with each of the corps thereby preventing any of those corps from ever joining a new alliance. Pretty cool, huh?


motherofgod.jpg

If that were to happen, the forums would be overflowing with tears for at least 6 months
DDbreaker
ZA'RWT
#52 - 2012-10-25 21:22:04 UTC
well this guys are taking advantage of this from 2009, and CCP just acting like nothing is happening. I just found a post about something similar like this, where they are listed with their alts:
" FW trouble
From: Ankhesentapemkah
Sent: 2009.12.04 02:05
To: Jade Constantine,

Hello Jade, how's it going?

As you may know, the PERVS and Cadre corps are exploiting FW bugs heavily and currently capturing all Minmatar space. If nothing is done they'll have it within the month.

I've already informed CCP but CCP didnt care when they used exploits to capture all gallente space either, stupid slackers.

Anyway, Z0D, my puppet on the CSM, is hiring all mercs he can find to grief them out of the game if CCp doesnt ban them, and Electus matari and a lot of gallente FW corps are going after them as well, starting this weekend. I'll finally get into PVP with my alt, as this is something worth fighting for!

Are you in as well?

Thanks, Eva

Info about the targets:

Main Targets:
Damar Rocarion
Bad Messenger
Unfamed II
Kuolematon
Yuri Intaki (likely Damar's alt or shared account)

Target Corps:
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
The Cadre
Whatever corp they use for their alts, suspected corp is Emperor Throne Guards as they used this in the past.

Target Corp Members:
Blaze Doran, SoKore, Minh Aldara, Lt Merc (Cadre)
Cletanainen, Lancress, Lina Lucent, Prismaa, Vampy Vampress, Tupsu, Tosi, Talerco and Sidaro (pervs)

Alts used for FW:
Michiru Murakami, Huppu Hemmo, Eva Jubse, Suurimaaami Mehmed, Maik Zierra, Sentern Embric, Pahani Julmu, Mestari Jaakko, Zan Fee, Rage coordinator, viidentahden vakooja, Per Capano, Pim Panero, Xian Bling

Time Zone:
Damar and Bad Messenger are confirmed Finnish, Unfamed II is suspected USA, Kuolematon is suspected British. A lot of them are unemployed and can be found online at any time. PERVS is a finnish-exclusive corp, while Cadre is their non-finnish wing.
.............................."
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#53 - 2012-10-25 21:57:43 UTC
Interestingly Bad Messenger is the most outspoken opponent of the recent FW changes. He's really upset that he can't milk the system anymore at his factions expense.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Deen Wispa
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-10-25 22:04:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
TL:DR. Bad Messenger and Damar manage to dupe Happy Endings and foil their plans to grow their alliance even larger than it already was in addition to just getting back at them for the wardec laid on them. I gotta give Bad a +1 for the intelligent griefing mechanics he used here. Twisted


DDbreaker wrote:
well this guys are taking advantage of this from 2009, and CCP just acting like nothing is happening. I just found a post about something similar like this, where they are listed with their alts:
" FW trouble
From: Ankhesentapemkah
Sent: 2009.12.04 02:05
To: Jade Constantine,

Hello Jade, how's it going?

As you may know, the PERVS and Cadre corps are exploiting FW bugs heavily and currently capturing all Minmatar space. If nothing is done they'll have it within the month.

I've already informed CCP but CCP didnt care when they used exploits to capture all gallente space either, stupid slackers.

Anyway, Z0D, my puppet on the CSM, is hiring all mercs he can find to grief them out of the game if CCp doesnt ban them, and Electus matari and a lot of gallente FW corps are going after them as well, starting this weekend. I'll finally get into PVP with my alt, as this is something worth fighting for!

Are you in as well?

Thanks, Eva

Info about the targets:

Main Targets:
Damar Rocarion
Bad Messenger
Unfamed II
Kuolematon
Yuri Intaki (likely Damar's alt or shared account)

Target Corps:
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
The Cadre
Whatever corp they use for their alts, suspected corp is Emperor Throne Guards as they used this in the past.

Target Corp Members:
Blaze Doran, SoKore, Minh Aldara, Lt Merc (Cadre)
Cletanainen, Lancress, Lina Lucent, Prismaa, Vampy Vampress, Tupsu, Tosi, Talerco and Sidaro (pervs)

Alts used for FW:
Michiru Murakami, Huppu Hemmo, Eva Jubse, Suurimaaami Mehmed, Maik Zierra, Sentern Embric, Pahani Julmu, Mestari Jaakko, Zan Fee, Rage coordinator, viidentahden vakooja, Per Capano, Pim Panero, Xian Bling

Time Zone:
Damar and Bad Messenger are confirmed Finnish, Unfamed II is suspected USA, Kuolematon is suspected British. A lot of them are unemployed and can be found online at any time. PERVS is a finnish-exclusive corp, while Cadre is their non-finnish wing.
.............................."

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Pen Is Out
#55 - 2012-10-25 22:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Ranger 1 wrote:
Interestingly Bad Messenger is the most outspoken opponent of the recent FW changes. He's really upset that he can't milk the system anymore at his factions expense.


Actually, that's not true. BM cared about plexing well before there were rewards.

What he's upset about is the changes CCP have made to FW, specifically those that removed Caldari's roflwtf advantages, e.g.

- CCP changed plexes so that after DT wasn't *the* time to plex and get plexes in system you cared about stuck (BM and Damar are finnish, and DT is a great time for them to play when the main US AND EU TZ's are at work)
- CCP warned damar to stop explotiing a different bug to get plexes stuck until the next downtime (They don't like plexes being available for US AND EU TZ players) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1154603 <-- fun thread to read with BM and damar accusing CCP of gallente bias when damar had received an exploit warning
- CCP started balancing the rats to allow gallente players to lock caldari players in Caldari rat plexes
- CCP made offensive plexing alts have to fit guns, while they could previously just orbit happily forever, avoiding all damage (again, easier for caldari to do than gallente)

That's the recent list of changes that have been "Gallente biased".

Future "Gallente biased" changes in the pipeline

- All rats will have similar damage profiles, no more caldari/minmatar able to speed tank all plexes in t1 frigates, while amarr and gallente have to deal with missile spam
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Shadow Cartel
#56 - 2012-10-25 22:23:20 UTC
teroarea wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
I'll have to brush up on the mechanics involved in a mutual war dec, but if I remember correctly they need some improvement in regards to this specific issue. Perhaps instead of a mutual war dec being free instead both sides might pay a reduced fee (one that cannot be automatically paid)... which would help to keep totally inactive corps from pulling stuff like this. The defender would still have the option to lock in the aggressor, but would have to pay a modest fee for the privilege, as well as take responsibility for manually paying the fee.

They're not totally inactive, the guy is lying. We know this because they were alert enough to see the war and make it mutual. He's trying to make excuses to get CCP to get him out of the situation rather than pay the ransom.




We made the surrendering offer but nowbody is online to accept it



Send 500mil to this toon and your troubles will go away.

Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-10-25 22:29:55 UTC
All I can say is dont disban your 10 year old corp for some scrub 10 man corp. Sucks you cant join an alliance but keep trying to get a hold of them in the mean time get some agents and find any of them active and blow em up
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#58 - 2012-10-25 22:46:51 UTC
+1 Emperor Throne Guards, Bad Messenger, and Damar. Well done!
Slasher88
BURN EDEN
#59 - 2012-10-25 23:17:38 UTC
+1 ning ppl for using some sort of a loophole and that were warned for using exploits . ppl that burst out with this sort of behaviour when theyre easy money is taken away from them . yeah dude u are are perfect example of a space idiot btw goonswarm is that way ----->, heard they have new sistems to play in
Tekitha
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#60 - 2012-10-25 23:50:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tekitha
The solution to this problem is simple tbh and it's a shame ccp lack the brain power to fix it.

When a corp / alliance makes a war mutual, there is no longer an "agressing" party, both sides are effectively agressing. At this point both parties should be afforded the mechanics of a defending party