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[Updated] How to repopulate nullsec - a question for highsec/WH players (and CCP)

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Author
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#21 - 2011-10-19 00:07:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Adelphie wrote:


The problem is there is no "alliance incubator" in eve anymore - so it would be interesting to understand what mechanics could be engineered to make this a reality again.



That's why I'd suggest making nullsec vulnerable to roaming gangs.

Currently, relatively small numbers of players can control huge parts of 0.0, because timers give them time to move the blob into position - they know the time and place where the enemy will strike (or blueball).

If e.g. moonmining arrays could be hacked by a small gang that BO-bridges in a couple of blockade runners to haul the stuff off without any timers or structure grind at all, 0.0 alliances would depend on having their space populated in order to quickly form up small defensive gangs, trying to intercept the raiders and giving them a hard time.

If they don't, their unpopulated systems will end up with a negative cash balance, which would in turn motivate 0.0 alliances to make themselves more attractive for potential inhabitants. So instead of having renters, paying billions to run their bots, they'd end up having to introduce replacement programs, educational services etc... to keep their space populated with actual humans.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#22 - 2011-10-19 00:24:18 UTC
Here is what null sec denizens can do in the first instance:

Step 1: stop inviting industrialists out to null sec with offers of space dedicated to industrial upgrades, then mugging them the moment they enter null sec.

Step 2: take the time to train new null sec residents in basic null sec operations, rather than having your "elite" FCs having to content with naive pilots who don't understand simple rules like "never warp to zero on your cloaked scout" and "never fleet warp a stealth bomber gang".

Step 3: find ways to encourage new players to participate in space combat, without simply using them as meat shields and bait (give the care bears a way to be useful: teach them how to scout in cloak frigates, teach them how to use a cyno, give rookies the jobs you used to have cyno alts for)

Here is what CCP can do:

Step 1: modify space combat so that smaller ships can conceivably "get under the big guns" of bigger ships: a frigate should be able to tackle a carrier with relative ease, a cruiser should be able to tackle a super cap without being shot to pieces by capital turrets.

Step 2: remove ewar immunity from super caps to encourage diverse playstyles, and encourage the use of support fleets when deploying capital assets

Step 3: use FW bunkers as part of null sec sov warfare, giving fleets of smaller ships defined objectives which they can participate in without fear of capital blobs dictating the course of battle

Step 4: reduce the viability of the "haul stuff from Jita" approach to supplying material requirements (this should apply across the board, not just null or low)

Step 5: provide a meaningful mechanism via which a support fleet can "guard" fragile assets such as mining barges and exhumers (I'm thinking "line of sight" combat mechanics or a portable deadspace field projector)
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2011-10-19 00:36:06 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
one thing that would boost industry in null sec is to give all outposts a basic 30% refinery as standard and all outposts get 10 more corp offices and 10 building/research slots. Only the minmatar outpost should be a 50% refinery though.

with POCO's coming in PI will make the humble pos useless in almost everything except moon mining tech or r64's because the cost of running them is going to skyrocket.

As poses are insanely weak vs today's mega blobs there will be no point in using them to build stuff in them cos of the cost of pos fuels

with supers getting nerfed there will be a sharp drop in demand for them, thus less csaa poses required.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.

Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-10-19 00:38:41 UTC
In order to get into null you have to suck a large alliances **** (renting), or you have to join said alliance and become fodder.

Tell me how that's enjoyable.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#25 - 2011-10-19 00:58:26 UTC
Unfortunately what I'd recommend is the opposite direction CCP seems to be heading (sorry guys...), but it is similar... redistribution of resources. Not from high / wh space to null, but within null itself. There are too many pockets of high value with too much low value between. Moon goo... spread it out so the systems with value are too far between for any one alliance to own them all. Plexes, same thing... give all null systems a chance to have them. The more you spread it out, the more people will feel they have a chance to find their vein of gold so odds are more will go for it, knowing that by doing so they're not dedicating themselves to a particular mega-alliance.

There are a lot of empty systems out there. Give people a real reason to check them out. Hell, redistribute the resources and don't tell anyone where to look.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Tetragammatron Prime
Pink Sockers
#26 - 2011-10-19 01:01:36 UTC
Remove local and I will definitely move nullsec. Till then I will stay inside my captains quarters in Jita 4-4 playing with my nips.
Mediocrity
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-10-19 01:04:19 UTC
Personally, I'm not averse to nullsec so much as I'm averse to the regimen of participating in a corporation, which is apparently necessary to take advantage of the nullsec environment. I realize other people are looking for different things from the game, but it's just not for me.

If I wanted another job where I'm forced to play with people I don't necessarily like under someone else's timetable, I'd go back to raiding in WoW. No thanks. What attracted me to EVE was the open-endedness, the freedom to hop off the gear treadmill and play however I want, whenever I want. This tradeoff means that I probably won't be a part of huge battles or major events, but I'm fine with that. I'm quite happy to read about these things occurring elsewhere in the persistent universe, while I putter around in my own little corner of the galaxy doing what I feel like.

If the game were changed in such a way that it became prohibitively difficult to operate on my own, I wouldn't move to nullsec; I'd simply quit the game.

Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-10-19 01:07:29 UTC
Ya, the moonmining system is a ******* disaster.

They were on the right track with dominion, which is the idea of requiring people to be actively "farming" their space to extract value from it, especially with team-oriented and organized efforts, which would also require the need to constantly defend it against roaming gangs and other aggressors. Instead of following through with what was essentially a blank slate expansion in need of huge detailing and elaboration, they've just left dominion to rot as simply a different way for massive dogpile and elite alliances to grind through structure hitpoints.

If you can design that active, dynamic, vulnerable, and team-oriented value creation system in nullsec, then you will draw people down. Furthermore, the same system can be scaled backwards through lowsec and even into hisec, thereby allowing a clear transitions for groups from hi through to null based on taking greater risks and facing bigger challenges with a gradually improving skillset and growing promise of rewards. That's the ******* game right there.
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2011-10-19 01:15:05 UTC
I simply have no desire to be a pet or a slave to some monolithic 0.0 mega alliance. The only way I'd ever consider null is if it got shattered into lots of little pieces and large blocs were impossible to hold onto. Until that day, I'll stay in wormholes.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-10-19 01:20:19 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
I simply have no desire to be a pet or a slave to some monolithic 0.0 mega alliance. The only way I'd ever consider null is if it got shattered into lots of little pieces and large blocs were impossible to hold onto. Until that day, I'll stay in wormholes.


Absolutely. I think even nullsec pilots want this.

Also, pulling people out of WHs seems counterproductive to me. The problem isn't people going to WHs, it's that people aren't leaving level 4 mission hubs or hisec belts because the barriers are too high and the incentives too low. If Eve was suddenly reduced to WHs Online, it would probably still have a future; a similar reduction to Hisec Online would almost certainly lead to its prompt collapse.
kiwis-can-fly
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-10-19 01:21:51 UTC
Well the answer to that question in my case is sp and my corpies who don't really want to move to null(awesome bunch of guys).
I started this game a little over 5 months ago and am enjoying pvp in high/low sec but I crave massive fleet battles like I have seen on you tube so when my skills allow me to atleast be slightly competitive I'll find myself a good Au/nz Corp/alliance to take me in killing fools with no sec loss is quite appealing to me. Hopefully my corpies will come down as well but give me time and I'll be there maybe I might try and get a clone down there so I can slowly build up a stock down there and get some real pvp in.

Btw: Go the mighty All Blacks(nz rugby team)
Adelphie
The Lone Wolves.
#32 - 2011-10-19 01:24:53 UTC
kiwis-can-fly wrote:
Btw: Go the mighty All Blacks(nz rugby team)


Derailing the thread a little - but it will be a sad day for sport if you don't win the match
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#33 - 2011-10-19 01:29:53 UTC
here is what would get people into low sec.

get all the super caps into one system.

then all of them press Ctrl + D

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2011-10-19 01:33:57 UTC
null is just pointless. Take it all away and replace it with an equal number of wormhole systems. Problem solved.

[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#35 - 2011-10-19 02:04:36 UTC
Change sov mechanics so that a bunch of day old frigate pilots could claim a system if nobody was there to defend and hold it. There's lots of people who want to stake a claim in nullsec but the requirements are too steep to do so without becoming somebody's pet. Otherwise, smaller corps and casual players are going to find what they want in high and lowsec so that they at least get to keep their independence and not have to play the game like a second job and meet the rent.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#36 - 2011-10-19 02:18:25 UTC
Rellik B00n wrote:
null is just pointless. Take it all away and replace it with an equal number of wormhole systems. Problem solved.


But what will the nullbears do without their sanctums?
The Apostle
Doomheim
#37 - 2011-10-19 02:26:18 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Couple of things that I saw that skewed my dislike of 0.0.

Station camping by big alliances.
I watched one particular group (leet too) who did a lot of harrassment/small gang stuff out of an 0.0 NPC station. They were finally locked down by the alliance that was being harrassed. Last I heard, the entire PvP corp left the region. It made for less PvP and small gang stuff for BOTH parties.

Possible solution: Buff NPC station defenses to make camping/tanking impossible so you can at least undock and go get some gudfites. 5 carriers and 30 arty BS's camping does not abode well for even the best of the best.

Sanctum nerfs.
A BIG mistake in my view. Competition within your own corps/alliances even became dangerous!

Possible Solution. Obvious.

AFK Cloakies.
Often discussed, lightly dismissed. They DO have a very negative impact on printing isk. Can make logging off the only option some days. Boredom ensues. All arguments to the contrary are false and incorrect. Twisted

Possible Solution. Turn ALL resources into sigs so they gotta scan you down first and then you'll know if they're AFK or not. Probes didn't get put into d-scan just for WH's... or did they?

Alliance demands.
Hate it. We all know what they are, CTA's, "RATTING!!! Get your ass over there NOW... go go go go ".... Yeah sure, I love PvP but why are we going 30 jumps to kill some dudes tower in lowsec . What's that, you hate each other??! Why's that MY problem?

OR Oh, you want to kill who? Why? Oh.... We need ANOTHER tech moon!!! sigh......

OR You want me to go 50 jumps 'cos same dude dropped an SBU. Oh? It's a TECH moon.....

OR Yes ofc. I understand that my ship will be reimbursed by the SRF and I understand that I might lose that ship while defending a TECH moon and that's why we need to defend the TECH moon because it will replace my ship if I lose it while defending a TECH moon............ What do I get out of it? Oh.... A replacement ship.... Oh goodie.

Possible Solution. Ban alliances. Shut 'em down. Kill all the leaders. OR (more realistically) ban blueing and NAP's. make 'em ALL fight. Put 10 tech moons in every damned system.

No Resources for ME.
We know the alliance needs money. Yeah yeah. But you need ALL of those moons? But why is Corp A with 100 members getting preference over Corp B with 200 members? Oh. It's YOUR corp and YOU'RE the alliance leader. mmmmK

Possible Solution. Ban alliances. Shut 'em down. Kill all the leaders. Max corp == 100. Max moons == 20 etc.... (for arguments sake). or put 10 tech moons in every system.

JB nerf.
Wha?! You want me to what? I build a bloody bewdiful and very expensive JB network, I spent 9 days mapping it all to a PDF, 30 days building an app so I could plan my jumps and 3 months getting all my BM's right. I did it so I DON'T have to run gate gauntlets and you wha?!!?

Possible Solution. Bring 'em back. Made no difference anyway now did it?


I could go on but hey, MOST of the bad ones all occured at the same time. CCP would have the data. They KNOW.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#38 - 2011-10-19 02:27:59 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Rellik B00n wrote:
null is just pointless. Take it all away and replace it with an equal number of wormhole systems. Problem solved.


But what will the nullbears do without their sanctums?


mess with the market? P
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#39 - 2011-10-19 02:48:35 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Rellik B00n wrote:
null is just pointless. Take it all away and replace it with an equal number of wormhole systems. Problem solved.


But what will the nullbears do without their sanctums?


Run Sleeper sites, then cry like hell when their crap fit null sanctum boats get blown to hell.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

yumike
Doomheim
#40 - 2011-10-19 02:52:45 UTC
I've played since '04. Everytime i've moved to null, within a week of getting assets down there I find either the station has changed hands and i've lost everything, or when I moved to npc null local had several hundred hostiles in it prepping to eat someone elses face.
Granted I think i've only made five or six attempts to "give null a shot" but I think I may have the worst luck ever in that regard.
I've always lost money (3bil last attempt) in doing it, and it takes awhile for the interest in it to gain and make another attempt.

There's also another issue, I prefer smaller alliances (sub 300 people) which obviously isn't viable in null because you'll just be ejected by someone that gets bored when a fleet of that size shows up. Mostly because any bigger and I don't personally seem to make any contacts/people I enjoy flying with. in highsec with wars i can happily get 5v5's and 10v10's, heck im happy to engage four of us versus 8 hostiles. In null its a different story and easy to lose interest when you have no ties to the people around you.

So cost effectiveness + social aspect, leaves me in highsec/wormholes.