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Can someone explain why we need a 24 hour timer on jumping to a new clone?
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Ravnik
Infinate Horizon
#21 - 2012-10-25 11:08:08 UTC
Colonel Xaven wrote:
Imho 24 hours are a fair timeframe.

I can understand a desire to shorten it, but that shortening would start a down spiral (a fulfilled desire awakens more desires) and lead to the exact reason why this timeframe is 24 hours now.


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Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#22 - 2012-10-25 11:18:51 UTC
Actually I think a more radical change might be good:

-remove all attribute enhancing implants from the game
-remove jump clones from the game

Moving around instantly without risking anything is too easy right now. We are not forced to really live anywhere, we can be in six different places six days of the week without risking our pods or a ship in actual travel.

If people had just their one pod, there would be a lot more traffic in and out of nullsec, for example. People would form convoys to get past gatecamps. Gatecamps would get more targets, but those targets would be more likely to put up a fight, because they have to organize better.

Sure, you'd be stuck with one implant set, but I don't think that's so bad. Right now I have one clone with a siege warfare mindlink and another with armored warfare mindlink, but why shouldn't I be forced to commit to only one of them?

The main meaningful purpose of jump clones right now is to encourage pvp in people, especially newbies, who would not risk their expensive attribute enhancers in pvp but also don't want to lose training time by foregoing the use of good implants. If attribute enhancers are abolished, this function of jump clones becomes obsolete.

.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#23 - 2012-10-25 11:38:39 UTC
If you want to abolish jump clones, then you better give me the ability to remove implants at will.

Because I am not getting stuck with one implant set and I'm not going to deal with it by htfu and trashing my implants every time I want to fly a different type of ship.

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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2012-10-25 11:41:52 UTC
Because of Falcon (the ship)

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svenska flicka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-10-25 11:44:59 UTC
I always felt a penalty in time made sense, but, 24 hours is too long.

It should be 12 hours, 12 hours to me is fair yet still penalizing.

They should also cut costs on clones in general, T1 frigates should be fun with 1mill sp as well as 100mill sp.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#26 - 2012-10-25 11:55:44 UTC
I've seen these threads come up lots in the Assembly Hall and Features etc, and the same argument are used on both sides for and against.

The pros say that quicker jump timers would allow people to get closer tot he action when they wanted to. The cons say that people would be travelling less manually and so there would be less opportunity for PvP.

I think even if the pros are right, small gang and solo will get nerfed by that kind of change. I like travelling manually.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#27 - 2012-10-25 11:56:11 UTC
svenska flicka wrote:
It should be 12 hours, 12 hours to me is fair yet still penalizing.
Fast-forward two years:
“It should be 6 hours, 6 hours to me is fair yet still penalizing.”

Once a day is fine. It's just that it should be once a day rather than once just-over-a-day.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#28 - 2012-10-25 12:02:16 UTC
I really wish travel considerations would be disassociated from implants. If the clones are in the same system, for example, I'd like to be able to switch them more often (even if there are penalties attached) than once per say. It has happened a moderate amount of times where I had to pass on potential action due to having the wrong implants.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

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svenska flicka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-10-25 12:02:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
svenska flicka wrote:
It should be 12 hours, 12 hours to me is fair yet still penalizing.
Fast-forward two years:
“It should be 6 hours, 6 hours to me is fair yet still penalizing.”

Once a day is fine. It's just that it should be once a day rather than once just-over-a-day.


I see your argument but I do not agree that would happen, that risk comes to every thing in this game with CCP so to say once 12, then 6.... But I do want ability to do it once a day, so other option would be allow you to jump clone twice every 24hours. But then you run into the problem with doing it 5 minutes after each other? I just think 24 hours is a bit extreme. Maybe let you do 1 jump every 24 hours across anywhere in the universe but also one time on top of that in a 24hour period if in same station?
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#30 - 2012-10-25 12:09:22 UTC
I think 18 hours is probably better. Say you come home from work at 6pm, eat tea, log on at 8pm, do some PvP till 10pm then jump clone and do some ratting till 11:30/12.

If you do the same tomorrow and PvP is happening at 8pm again you can't jump clone till 11:30/12.

I think 18 hours lets you still basically only JC once a day but means its a tad more flexible instead of "I know you have a strat op in

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Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-10-25 12:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Tippia wrote:
svenska flicka wrote:
It should be 12 hours, 12 hours to me is fair yet still penalizing.
Fast-forward two years:
“It should be 6 hours, 6 hours to me is fair yet still penalizing.”

Once a day is fine. It's just that it should be once a day rather than once just-over-a-day.


Clearly, it's not fine as if it was, we wouldn't see people asking for it to be reduced.

Knocking an hour off the timer would be pointless but to be honest I don't really care about jump cloning for the sake of instant travel, i (and many others) just want to be able to swap clones whenever. That wouldn't break anything.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#32 - 2012-10-25 12:14:26 UTC
The current 24 hours are a real inconvienience to those that are bound to tight shedules due to RL.

We need a skill that lets us reduce the jumping delay by 1 hour per level, perhaps 2 hours depending on the skill multipier.
I believe that would be an acceptable compromise.

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svenska flicka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-10-25 12:17:03 UTC
Nerath Naaris wrote:
The current 24 hours are a real inconvienience to those that are bound to tight shedules due to RL.

We need a skill that lets us reduce the jumping delay by 1 hour per level, perhaps 2 hours depending on the skill multipier.
I believe that would be an acceptable compromise.



I hate adding a new skill to the game you will end up forcing every body and their mother to train, the skill would be that valuable it would even be something every one trains to level 5.

But yes, I would love for a change to current mechanic.
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-10-25 12:19:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Colonel Xaven
Arduemont wrote:
I've seen these threads come up lots in the Assembly Hall and Features etc, and the same argument are used on both sides for and against.

The pros say that quicker jump timers would allow people to get closer tot he action when they wanted to. The cons say that people would be travelling less manually and so there would be less opportunity for PvP.

I think even if the pros are right, small gang and solo will get nerfed by that kind of change. I like travelling manually.


The problem is not only travelling. There is a good chance that jump cloning with short cooldowns could become a mechanic to mitigate consequences. Trading in Jita, jump into your pvp clone, roam, get stuck / camped in a station - jump clone out, come again.

If you start lowering the cooldown, another guy will come again in a few months to ask for a lower cooldown again.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2012-10-25 12:19:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Rek Seven wrote:
Clearly, it's not fine as if it was, we wouldn't see people asking for it to be reduced.
Yeah, the problem is that what people are asking for is not a suitable metric for what is fine and what isn't.

People are asking for built-in bots, no highsec, no nullsec, PvP switches, I-win buttons and all manners of things that would alter things that are just fine as they are. Knocking an hour off the timer would not be pointless because it would make it an actual once-a-day thing rather than the current once-a-bit-more-than-a-day event it is. It's a classic error when designing countdowns.

…but sure, that's building on the assumption that it should be a once-a-day ability, which isn't entirely certain, and again, it wouldn't need to be a full hour to solve that issue — 5 minutes would work just as well.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#36 - 2012-10-25 12:23:14 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It's to ensure that you can't move around (or adjust your clone setup) too easily at too little cost.

The only problem with the timer is that it's a classic timer fence-post error. It should really be 23h (or 23:55).


… or 36h, just to reinforce that it's not intended to be used once a day at the beginning of each play session :)

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Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-10-25 12:24:57 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Tippia wrote:
It's to ensure that you can't move around (or adjust your clone setup) too easily at too little cost.

The only problem with the timer is that it's a classic timer fence-post error. It should really be 23h (or 23:55).


… or 36h, just to reinforce that it's not intended to be used once a day at the beginning of each play session :)


Actually 36h sounds good. Seconded.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
svenska flicka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-10-25 12:26:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Clearly, it's not fine as if it was, we wouldn't see people asking for it to be reduced.
Yeah, the problem is that what people are asking for is not a suitable metric for what is fine and what isn't.

People are asking for built-in bots, no highsec, no nullsec, PvP switches, I-win buttons and all manners of things that would alter things that are just fine as they are. Knocking an hour off the timer would not be pointless because it would make it an actual once-a-day thing rather than the current once-a-bit-more-than-a-day event it is. It's a classic error when designing countdowns.

…but sure, that's building on the assumption that it should be a once-a-day ability, which isn't entirely certain, and again, it wouldn't need to be a full hour to solve that issue — 5 minutes would work just as well.



If it wasn't it should have been 36 hours or longer.

I also have to agree with posters talking about traveling issue. Let us only do that once every 24hours then but let us change clones in the same station with a medical bay more often than that, at least once a day. My issues is not traveling or even wanting that to happen more often, in fact I hate that traveling in EVE has become this easy and fast compared to what it use to be. I just wanna be able to at least switch implants once a day in same station ie you sit in leadership plants and get called to bring a HIC...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-10-25 12:29:22 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Well what I know for sure is a lot of us don't us jump clones for their intended purpose, but instead we use them to store different implant sets. Being able to switch between implant sets only once per 24 hours is detrimental to PVP. For example, during a quiet period you and a whole bunch of other people in your alliance jump into ratting clones. My ratting clone has +5 learning implants and 5% damage hardwirings. 10 hours later there's a spontaneous fleet. A large number of people aren't going to be showing up to this fleet because they don't want to risk their blinged out brains.

A couple solutions to this problem would be allowing jumps within clones at the same station with a greatly reduced timer or no timer at all, or allowing unplugging of learning implants without destroying them (and possibly hardwirings with some penalty).

However I just thought of a way this could be exploited in combination with death cloning, but death cloning is already a problem. The solution to this, I propose, would be so that you cannot change your medical clone station more than once every 48 hours.

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Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-10-25 12:32:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rordan D'Kherr
svenska flicka wrote:
. I just wanna be able to at least switch implants once a day in same station ie you sit in leadership plants and get called to bring a HIC...


James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Well what I know for sure is a lot of us don't us jump clones for their intended purpose, but instead we use them to store different implant sets. Being able to switch between implant sets only once per 24 hours is detrimental to PVP. For example, during a quiet period you and a whole bunch of other people in your alliance jump into ratting clones. My ratting clone has +5 learning implants and 5% damage hardwirings. 10 hours later there's a spontaneous fleet. A large number of people aren't going to be showing up to this fleet because they don't want to risk their blinged out brains.


Consequences. Yeah. Bad thingy.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.