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Why a high sec nerf is good for industrialists.
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Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#241 - 2012-10-24 16:29:48 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:




Jita purchased items are sold everywhere in new eden, it's called competition, why cna't you understand this? It costs EVERYONE slightly less to build somethign ANYWHERE than it costs to buy in jita.

I made a post earlier when you were presenting these exact same arguments. Your problem is DEMAND, it's not high sec. Really maybe if you alliance didn't shoot everything that isn't blue, dont you think there would be more DEMAND? There's one solution to your predicament.

Now let's talk about Jita imports, and how you don't like that competition. How about instead of camping Uedama and Niarja Miniluv was to blow up any JF's that are bringing goods from jita to vfk? How about instead of demanding nerfs to your competition, you create the risk to these JF's in what is supposed to be dangerous space? risk/reward no? oh wait risk/reward only applies when talking about high sec right?

There your problem with imports is solved, but guess what? Your alliance does not want to implement these solutions. You want CCP to change game mechanics to accomodate you, and to accomodate your alliance's hostilities.



You compete for nothing in high sec.

Every minute I'm competing with other people for the materials I need to ensure that I'm able to build stuff and compete with jita imports. You do not compete, and actively work to ensure you're getting the very best in prices for your minerals and ensuring that you keep up with demand.

You have no idea.
I'm managing billions in building and selling in null, the entire time competing with jita imports. If I actually wanted to live in high sec I could be doing 10's of billions.



Messing with JFers screws over importing, you can't seem to grasp that I consider that an important part of the economy and SHOULDN'T be impacted significantly.

And LOL@the high sec industrialists who are apposed to making more isk doing industry in high sec. Not wanting to make more off of what you sell in high sec just sounds ******* stupid to me.


How is your **** being worth more bad for the game?
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#242 - 2012-10-24 16:29:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Inceasing demand by reducing the exploding of ships...

Yea thats going to work well.


Seems to be working fine for Jita.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#243 - 2012-10-24 16:43:32 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Inceasing demand by reducing the exploding of ships...

Yea thats going to work well.


Seems to be working fine for Jita.

Well thats one of the biggest pants on head retorts I have seen for a while...
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#244 - 2012-10-24 16:44:58 UTC
"If I actually wanted to live in high sec I could be doing 10's of billions. "
So that's the decision you make man. Why should the game be changed so you can make 10's of billions. I want to make more isk too, you dont see me calling for things to be nerfed to make that possible. I could make more money if I worked the Jita hub, but I dont for various reasons, should I start pleading to CCP to give my region an advantage over Jita so I can make more?


"Messing with JFers screws over importing, you can't seem to grasp that I consider that an important part of the economy and SHOULDN'T be impacted significantly."

I do grasp that it's an important part of your economy, you've been complaining about it on basically every page of this thread.

Just admit it man, you want to make more money than you currently do. You live in a part of space where there's no risk to import goods from Jita, yet you think your part of space is so special that it shoudl be treated differently than other parts of space where Jita goods are imported. You live in a part of space where the demand for the goods you produce is choked by your own masters, yet you complain about not enough volume, but wont move to where there is more volume.


"And LOL@the high sec industrialists who are apposed to making more isk doing industry in high sec. Not wanting to make more off of what you sell in high sec just sounds ******* stupid to me. "

It sound stupid to me that you think there are high sec industrialists who are opposed to making more isk. What does even have to do with anything?
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#245 - 2012-10-24 16:45:39 UTC
Silk,

Do you understand that the problem would be fixed if you guys would just raise your prices?

We would both benefit if you aksed for more money from the stuff you built.


But you guys would never willingly do that, because it would require high sec industry working together, and quite frankly you guys could give give a **** if you're ruining the ability of most of the rest of the world to develop an economy of their own.

Not to mention a lot of you would actually have to learn to add. The amount of crap that gets sold for less than mineral cost is ******* full on ********.

Why don't I want to live in high sec? Because it obviously causes people to develop down syndrome; my health is important to me.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#246 - 2012-10-24 16:46:12 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Inceasing demand by reducing the exploding of ships...

Yea thats going to work well.


Seems to be working fine for Jita.

Well thats one of the biggest pants on head retorts I have seen for a while...


Because a safe trade hub is beyond your intelligence i guess.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#247 - 2012-10-24 16:51:27 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Silk,

Do you understand that the problem would be fixed if you guys would just raise your prices?

We would both benefit if you aksed for more money from the stuff you built.


But you guys would never willingly do that, because it would require high sec industry working together, and quite frankly you guys could give give a **** if you're ruining the ability of most of the rest of the world to develop an economy of their own.

Not to mention a lot of you would actually have to learn to add. The amount of crap that gets sold for less than mineral cost is ******* full on ********.

Why don't I want to live in high sec? Because it obviously causes people to develop down syndrome; my health is important to me.


So you want high sec to not have any competition, and come together to form a cartel on everything that is manufactured in eve.

You have serious issues with competition it's obvious.

Also, nice argument that playing a video game a certain way causes you to be born with less chromosones than other people. Quite interesting and intelligent posting.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#248 - 2012-10-24 16:52:51 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:

"And LOL@the high sec industrialists who are apposed to making more isk doing industry in high sec. Not wanting to make more off of what you sell in high sec just sounds ******* stupid to me. "

It sound stupid to me that you think there are high sec industrialists who are opposed to making more isk. What does even have to do with anything?

Because you keep arguing with me, and the entire time I'm saying I want high sec to make more.

The only way to make sure you guys are charging more is to raise the price of minerals. We can't exactly inject another 150k people into high sec to compete and drive up the cost of minerals. There's more minerals than there is competition in high sec, and it's keeping prices to low by driving the cost on many items to near mineral cost levels.


The only people that would be hurt by a reduction in refining rates are the people that want to mine and gather all of the materials themselves, just to build their own ships. Big deal if you have to mine a half hour longer.

I believe the demand in high sec has reached a point that a reduction in output would be offset by an increase in mineral costs. It wouldn't hurt high sec, and could be a potential buff, if mineral prices rose enough.

I'm not saying you need to pay 10x more any given item in high sec, but a few thousand more isk here and there isn't going to hurt anyone in high and would be a huge help to null.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#249 - 2012-10-24 16:53:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Silk daShocka wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Silk,

Do you understand that the problem would be fixed if you guys would just raise your prices?

We would both benefit if you aksed for more money from the stuff you built.


But you guys would never willingly do that, because it would require high sec industry working together, and quite frankly you guys could give give a **** if you're ruining the ability of most of the rest of the world to develop an economy of their own.

Not to mention a lot of you would actually have to learn to add. The amount of crap that gets sold for less than mineral cost is ******* full on ********.

Why don't I want to live in high sec? Because it obviously causes people to develop down syndrome; my health is important to me.


So you want high sec to not have any competition, and come together to form a cartel on everything that is manufactured in eve.

You have serious issues with competition it's obvious.

Also, nice argument that playing a video game a certain way causes you to be born with less chromosones than other people. Quite interesting and intelligent posting.

Ok

Gotcha

You're just a troll.

PS: And no, not "born" with less, high sec causes a depletion in chromosones apparently. As can be seen by how items end up selling for as much as or less than the minerals it cost to build it.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#250 - 2012-10-24 16:57:08 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Silk,

Do you understand that the problem would be fixed if you guys would just raise your prices?

We would both benefit if you aksed for more money from the stuff you built.


But you guys would never willingly do that, because it would require high sec industry working together, and quite frankly you guys could give give a **** if you're ruining the ability of most of the rest of the world to develop an economy of their own.

Not to mention a lot of you would actually have to learn to add. The amount of crap that gets sold for less than mineral cost is ******* full on ********.

Why don't I want to live in high sec? Because it obviously causes people to develop down syndrome; my health is important to me.


So you want high sec to not have any competition, and come together to form a cartel on everything that is manufactured in eve.

You have serious issues with competition it's obvious.

Also, nice argument that playing a video game a certain way causes you to be born with less chromosones than other people. Quite interesting and intelligent posting.

Ok

Gotcha

You're just a troll.

PS: And no, not "born" with less, high sec causes a depletion in chromosones apparently. As can be seen by how items end up selling for as much as or less than the minerals it cost to build it.


right i'm a troll because i've made all your silly ideas, look silly
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#251 - 2012-10-24 16:59:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Silk daShocka wrote:


right i'm a troll because i've made all your silly ideas, look silly

That you did.

Very supportive of my down syndrome hypothesis.


I want you to make more money in high sec, and you're against that.
The retardation is pretty obvious there.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#252 - 2012-10-24 17:01:16 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:

"And LOL@the high sec industrialists who are apposed to making more isk doing industry in high sec. Not wanting to make more off of what you sell in high sec just sounds ******* stupid to me. "

It sound stupid to me that you think there are high sec industrialists who are opposed to making more isk. What does even have to do with anything?

Because you keep arguing with me, and the entire time I'm saying I want high sec to make more.

The only way to make sure you guys are charging more is to raise the price of minerals. We can't exactly inject another 150k people into high sec to compete and drive up the cost of minerals. There's more minerals than there is competition in high sec, and it's keeping prices to low by driving the cost on many items to near mineral cost levels.


The only people that would be hurt by a reduction in refining rates are the people that want to mine and gather all of the materials themselves, just to build their own ships. Big deal if you have to mine a half hour longer.

I believe the demand in high sec has reached a point that a reduction in output would be offset by an increase in mineral costs. It wouldn't hurt high sec, and could be a potential buff, if mineral prices rose enough.

I'm not saying you need to pay 10x more any given item in high sec, but a few thousand more isk here and there isn't going to hurt anyone in high and would be a huge help to null.


You still dont' realize that people in high sec will not make more isk with the changes you present.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#253 - 2012-10-24 17:03:40 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:


right i'm a troll because i've made all your silly ideas, look silly

That you did.

Very supportive of my down syndrome hypothesis.


I want you to make more money in high sec, and you're against that.
The retardation is pretty obvious there.


oh so now your gonna call me a ****** because I dont' agree with your null sec propaganda

how cute

Clearly to be more intelligent, and not have retardation, I should agree with all your bsery, move to null, and bow down to the derptani.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#254 - 2012-10-24 17:07:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Silk daShocka wrote:
So more people lose ships in high sec, thanks for proving my point.

I never doubted more ships were lost to pvp in null.

Let's have a closer look at those numbers, shall we?

If we assume a population of 350k, and 70% are in hisec, 8% are in lowsec, 20% are in nullsec and 2% are in WH, that means that hisec has 39.29% of the kills, lowsec has 21.97% of the kills, nullsec has 36.16% of the kills and WHs have 2.55% of the kills. Corrected pr capita, that yields 33.84 kills pr capita in hisec, 165.62 in lowsec, 109 in nullsec and 77.13 in WHs.

However, if we interpret the part where Diagoras says "the tutorials are killing quite a few players", that removes around 3.5m kills (3587548 to be exact) from hisec, which means hisec is at 4.7m kills, or 26.8% of all kills, or 19.2 per capita, whereas lowsec is at 26.48% of all kills, nullsec is at 43.57% and WHs are 3.08% of all kills.

Yep, hisec sure is dangerous.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#255 - 2012-10-24 17:08:55 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:
So more people lose ships in high sec, thanks for proving my point.

I never doubted more ships were lost to pvp in null.

Let's have a closer look at those numbers, shall we?

If we assume a population of 350k, and 70% are in hisec, 8% are in lowsec, 20% are in nullsec and 2% are in WH, that means that hisec has 39.29% of the kills, lowsec has 21.97% of the kills, nullsec has 36.16% of the kills and WHs have 2.55% of the kills. Corrected pr capita, that yields 33.84 kills pr capita in hisec, 165.62 in lowsec, 109 in nullsec and 77.13 in WHs. However, if we interpret the part where Diagoras says "the tutorials are killing quite a few players", that removes around 3.5m kills (3587548 to be exact) from hisec, which means we're down to 26,86% of all kills, or 19.2 kills per capita.

Yep, hisec sure is dangerous.


I never mentioned that ships get blown up in high sec because it was dangerous. Go re read why I brought it up in the first place.

Per capita has very little to do with it.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#256 - 2012-10-24 17:09:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:

And you would lose all your playmates then what will you do, duh, no more miner bumping, yeah take advice from a non industrialist on what serves best for indys, UNDERSTAND T H E R E IS N O T H I N G WRONG WITH LOW SEC OR DULL SEC the problem is not everyone in this game chooses to play a s s grabbing games with people who enjoy fondling each others genitals CAN YOU PROCESS THIS INTO YOUR BRAINS ARE YOU SO OBTUSE IT DOESN'T SINK IN.

Before you rage more I just want to point out that I am an industrialist and that I dont build stuff out in null sec because its cheaper to build in high sec and export it

it is quite funny how members of "the most successfull and industrialist friendly" alliance and have "all things high-sec industrialists can only dream of" build stuff in high-sec and xfer into 0.0 to sell Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#257 - 2012-10-24 17:11:46 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
I never mentioned that ships get blown up in high sec because it was dangerous. Go re read why I brought it up in the first place.

Per capita has very little to do with it.

3.58 million ships are apparently blown up in tutorial missions, which leaves 4704400 ships blown up in hisec, which is almost less than in lowsec and almost half of what's blown up in nullsec.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#258 - 2012-10-24 17:14:44 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:

You still dont' realize that people in high sec will not make more isk with the changes you present.



You wouldn't lose money.

How much you could potentially make, that's were the possibe buff I mention comes in, depends on just how much demand there is.

It is most important though that you will not lose money as an industrialist. Breaking even isn't a nerf.

PVE guys will pay more, but THEY CAN AFFORD IT.

You can't possibly deny that people are making enough isk in high sec to pay a little more for things. Again, not a lot, just a little.



CCP knows all the numbers, and someone better at math than me can put those numbers together to see how much you would need to cut high sec mineral output to inflate the cost of minerals.

I believe that increased prices for minerals would benefit the economy as a whole.



Am I wrong in seeing EVE's overal world economy as if it was like a real world economy where China is the worlds largest consumer as well as producer of goods? Wouldn't it be a bad thing for the rest of the world if China was able to dictate what the majority of the worlds goods cost?

Is that not a fair comparison to the way that high sec operates now?
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#259 - 2012-10-24 17:15:49 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:


right i'm a troll because i've made all your silly ideas, look silly

That you did.

Very supportive of my down syndrome hypothesis.


I want you to make more money in high sec, and you're against that.
The retardation is pretty obvious there.


oh so now your gonna call me a ****** because I dont' agree with your null sec propaganda

how cute

Clearly to be more intelligent, and not have retardation, I should agree with all your bsery, move to null, and bow down to the derptani.

No, you misread again.

You're clearly that way from doing high sec industry, not disagreeing with me.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#260 - 2012-10-24 17:25:04 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


The only way to make sure you guys are charging more is to raise the price of minerals. We can't exactly inject another 150k people into high sec to compete and drive up the cost of minerals. There's more minerals than there is competition in high sec, and it's keeping prices to low by driving the cost on many items to near mineral cost levels.


The only people that would be hurt by a reduction in refining rates are the people that want to mine and gather all of the materials themselves, just to build their own ships. Big deal if you have to mine a half hour longer.

I believe the demand in high sec has reached a point that a reduction in output would be offset by an increase in mineral costs. It wouldn't hurt high sec, and could be a potential buff, if mineral prices rose enough.

I'm not saying you need to pay 10x more any given item in high sec, but a few thousand more isk here and there isn't going to hurt anyone in high and would be a huge help to null.


Just a thought...
a fun way to increase mineral prices without coming up with lame taxes or refinery rates would be to just make asteroids destructable by normal weapons.
I bet there are quite a few players here who would gladly volunteer to dedicate a lot of time and personal effort to the destruction of asteroids before they can be mined.
Mineral prices would go up.
Delicious tears on the forums.
Everybody would have fun.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.