These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

No mor SOV 2.0

Author
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#1 - 2012-10-24 14:35:41 UTC
I may not seem completely clear in my English CCP falcon but I may be a poet in my part of the world just depends on what real estate your standing on on how you come across to others, I Google "general discussion" it describe it as this;
general discussion

Web definitions a Minister or a member may give notice of a motion that any policy or situation may be discussed by the Assembly;. www.pap.gov.pk/html/1195027328_e.shtml
Ok that being put out,
1. Get rid of SOV because it's gimping Null.
2. Build a new ship that scoops roids rather then mine them.
3. Put NPC stations in every corner of Null.
4. Meta 3 and above should only drop in 0.4 and below.
and as I continue to think more ideals ( good and bad) will be posted...but yes sir I want Null to have it all this way Null will be the gold mine it is but easier for them to become insanely rich.Big smile
Doc J
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#2 - 2012-10-24 14:48:00 UTC
I think some of your post its a little unclear but if i understand you you want no sov.

The point of Sov is its a flag and a target for people to fight over.

The problem is the target is too god dam painful.
As per my reply to your first post.


I like the idea of no sov and people being able to do what they want within there little system. But to live in null sec you need to be of a certain character. e.g. You can not just run dock and wait for the timers to hit and hopefully get a defence fleet up.

what i would regard as a completely entertaining null sec is having certain targetrs that give certain bonuses - e.g. to get the best out of your system requires 5 industrials modules that have a medium HP and are anchored in space (not a damn pos) these said targets would hopefully be the catalist for the defenders to actually come and defend. E.g. 5 x 1 complexes that when destroyed lower the upgrade level. these complexes are either medium to highly expensive so that it means people will feel a loss when destroyed and avoids tick tocking anchoring modules or the complex is relatively cheap and takes a long time to anchor. Other rules could apply where once a module is destroyed you can not kill another for 3 hours.

What i am attempting here is that it is well documented that fights in null sec are very often driven by reinforcing something with the intention of having a good fight 2 days later. this is fine but what do we do if we want the instant fight now... there isn't really any mechanic that supports this.

Downfall would be that his is tied to time zone. e.g.

Attacker kills said targets at off-peak time for defender.

But we want to kill things and ruin someones day that don't take an age to reinforce. Its almost like we need two levels of "terriotory beacons"... the big stuff that protects people assets -> stations, POS, I-hubs, cyno gen, jammer..... and then the targets; the small stuff where the reasons for defending the targets will instantly reward you im talking about the system upgrades.

Either way, my two cents is this. You have to work to take over someone territory, but at the same time you have to incentivise people to want to go ruin someones day.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#3 - 2012-10-24 15:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
I get it I understand SOV is their flag planted, but even the goons say that null is broken how? I don't know but they claim that it is. And all I hear is wanting to nerf hi sec because this will magically fix null and low.
1. But hi sec is too easy I spend atleast 20 hrs a month mining (exciting yes).
2. But you can afk, yeah up to 7 to 10 min if I can find good size roids.
3. But mining buffs makes you invincible, please, we know that's not true.
Shall I go on.
Ok I will, hi sec is too easy, ahhh I bring you rancer...gate...smartbombing....BS...sit at gates insta pooping almost anything that isn't a BC or above....thought gate guns where supposed to remove camps...too easy for pirates. (That live in low to camp).
here's what I can't do but wish I could solo without intrusion,
WH sites....nope get popped.
Null, go mine some hi end roids for my builds, nope popped.
fly a Roqaul...nope
fly a Capitol size combat ship...nope not in hi sec.
moon mine...nope.
officer drops...nope.
set up POS without sec status, nope.
No more tanking for ganks in hi sec, nope.
and the list goes on.
but I digress, SOV change wouldn't change as much as you think except paying the bill for it, with stations in every corner strong man holds sway over that piece of real estate....ask the goons they control that nice real estate down in 0.0 and any others who are lucky enough to have NPC stations in their 0.0.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2012-10-25 07:23:08 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
I get it I understand SOV is their flag planted, but even the goons say that null is broken how? I don't know but they claim that it is. And all I hear is wanting to nerf hi sec because this will magically fix null and low.
1. But hi sec is too easy I spend atleast 20 hrs a month mining (exciting yes).
2. But you can afk, yeah up to 7 to 10 min if I can find good size roids.
3. But mining buffs makes you invincible, please, we know that's not true.
Shall I go on.
Ok I will, hi sec is too easy, ahhh I bring you rancer...gate...smartbombing....BS...sit at gates insta pooping almost anything that isn't a BC or above....thought gate guns where supposed to remove camps...too easy for pirates.
here's what I can't do but wish I could solo without intrusion,
WH sites....nope get popped.
Null, go mine some hi end roids for my builds, nope popped.
fly a Roqaul...nope
fly a Capitol size combat ship...nope not in hi sec.
moon mine...nope.
officer drops...nope.
set up POS without sec status, nope.
No more tanking for ganks in hi sec, nope.
and the list goes on.
but I digress, SOV change wouldn't change as much as you think except paying the bill for it, with stations in every corner strong man holds sway over that piece of real estate....ask the goons they control that nice real estate down in 0.0 and any others who are lucky enough to have NPC stations in their 0.0.



psst, Rancer isn't in highsec.

It takes no time at all to find huge untoughed roids in highsec. Park a mack on them for however long it takes to fill one. Since the buffs, you might not be invincible, but it's not economical to gank you anymore.

If you want to go to WH or null, why, exactly, do you expect the people who live there and fight for thier space to let you steal thier ore? How do they know you're not packing a cyno (if in null) or just bait?

Moon mining is an alliance level asset. If you want in on that, join an alliance. No-one does that solo. Caps and rorquals have no place in highsec, all they'd be used for is to make yourself absolutely one hundred percent immune to everything. Tell me again why you need a carrier to tank a level four mission? Roll

Officer drops are, again, intended for groups.

If someone is tanking CONCORD in highsec, that's an exploit and is banable. If they're tanking the gate guns in Rancer, which is lowsec, then you learned not to try and go that way. Find a quieter patch of lowsec.

NPC stations in all of null make it impossible to hold territory and turn fights into boring station camp fests. No-one enjoys that.


I think you should learn how to play EVE before you scream, cry and demand the game changes to suit your every whim.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#5 - 2012-10-25 12:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
Nice, sir, it's obvious that even when I list them to be as concise as I can be it may not still be understood, which is my point to Mr. Falcon, there is no way to be perfectly understood by everyone.
That being said I sir/madame really don't want to change anything, it is the forum post railing about nerf hi sec so low and dull will be fixed, somehow nerfing hi sec will achieve this, what people don't understand is that...
1. Gate guns were put in low to make access to low a possibility instead of ehm...Rancer(yes I know it's low sec),(and I apologize for not stating so...my assumption was that everyone would get my statement I was wrong), I appreciate your input because it has helped me see my error that I cannot assume they do.
2. The reason I am stating things I would like to do but cannot due to mechanics of the game is point out what people in hi sec may dream of but cannot achieve without going below to low or null, they accept that as do I, my access to other toys in eve are gimped because of where I choose to live.
3. Im not mad because I cannot do those things, I accept it for my cowardly carebear softness of hiding in hi sec.
4. The mining barge/exhumer buffs made soooo many people mad, why? Not profitable enough? Who says they gank purely for profit many did it for lol griefing this simply makes it something that if your willing to do then it should cost you cause your commiting a crime (in game not real life) against another person and why should not criminal get punishment but it also follows that now we have a choice tank for gank or maximize yields on our mining barge/exhumer I must also point out that have you tried to tank fit a retriever...it stinks and! Have you read goonwiki it explains exactly how many dassies it takes to gank different barges/exhumers 2 dassies for a covetor...2, a 35+ million isk ship with mods and rigs upwards of 50 mil with all that...2 dassies check the cost disparity AND I happen to be ratting one day came across a fresh gank kill a hulk killed by looks like 2 dassies wrecks nearby and since I did not want salvage to go to waste I salvaged hulk and got a 45 million isk salvageable out of it...not profitable please.
I will post more but I have got to go to work, Consider this, CCP seems to be laying ground work for new stuff coming in winter expansion but many don't like changes but yet complain about the game being stale...what gives? Just take a break from eve it won't kill people to lift their heads and breathe once in a while.
Exterminatus Illexis
Unmarked Discrete Packaging.
#6 - 2012-10-25 15:59:13 UTC
This is an absolutely horrid idea for many reasons.
1. Null is probably the most fun place in the game to run around being a general *******, and make money doing it because you don't lose sec and can rat.
2. While the sov mechanics need to be tweaked, they're tightly wrought into the game's history and cause hilarious, amazing and beautiful metagaming to occur. You remove sov, about half the game's players poof because holding territory in null makes the game what it is. You're fighting over resources, albeit those resources need great tweaking as well but they're still the most profitable in the game.

With love,

Your favorite idiot.

Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#7 - 2012-10-25 16:22:46 UTC
You know I completely utterly 110% agree with you, but according to null dweller's posting in forum INCLUDING the goons(although I take that with a pinch of salt) null is broken, in my time In null I made tons of profit from ratting and PI was a breeze I kid not I would have trouble keeping PI goods from backing up, I would have entire system to myself mining deep in alliance space I would know when trouble was heading my way through alliance channels, I would mine I grav sites filled with only the best roids even though static belts offered the same, rat spawns were plentiful and when I got in trouble by rats corp mates would fly in and help bail me out, I never got around to flying Capitol ships there but I should have, I don't know if SOV cannot be removed or null dweller's don't want it removed then why do they say nulls broke, and their pocket books are empty and blame this on hi sec, my income is nothing compared with when I was down in null, my only problem was bpo/bpc and skill books, I just couldn't run down to the nearest store and buy one, I missed missioning, which is why I move back to empire but my Income suffered greatly because of that.
Exterminatus Illexis
Unmarked Discrete Packaging.
#8 - 2012-10-25 16:36:17 UTC
The reasons they complain are plentiful, and some are just plain stupid. However the values of highsec ore are more valuable than null, in belts, and alchemy takes more effort but can be just as profitable as moon goo mining. The issue is industry can't be properly supported in null, and so they have to rely entirely on highsec industry corps to supply their goods and use jump freighters to move it down. Nullsec has to be more self sustaining rather than relying on highsec for everything.

Then there's the other issues, namely structure grinding. an article on Themitanni covered all these issues rather thoroughly, even if it is a bit of propaganda it goes over the issues well. In short, the ammo you use to destroy a structure is pretty much worth more than the structure itself and POS's need a MAJOR buff in some fields.

With love,

Your favorite idiot.

Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#9 - 2012-10-25 21:01:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
Exterminatus Illexis wrote:
The reasons they complain are plentiful, and some are just plain stupid. However the values of highsec ore are more valuable than null, in belts, and alchemy takes more effort but can be just as profitable as moon goo mining. The issue is industry can't be properly supported in null, and so they have to rely entirely on highsec industry corps to supply their goods and use jump freighters to move it down. Nullsec has to be more self sustaining rather than relying on highsec for everything.

Then there's the other issues, namely structure grinding. an article on Themitanni covered all these issues rather thoroughly, even if it is a bit of propaganda it goes over the issues well. In short, the ammo you use to destroy a structure is pretty much worth more than the structure itself and POS's need a MAJOR buff in some fields.

Bingo, Industry isn't easy in 0.0 and below so that's my point I want it to be effortless for dull dwellers hence get rid of SOV, however you bring up a point I missed, maybe SOV doesn't have to die, instead seed hi sec sections amongst null sec so they have hi sec's nearby and don't even need empire hi sec just the seeded hi sec so that they can self sustain and not worry about being shot doing indy in a null(front yard)hi sec(backyard) arrangement, however then the pirates will cry out because null folks won't need to travel through low to get to hi...sigh, which again keeps us going in circle the easiest answer I assume is to buff outposts with a 100 or more slots for manufacturing and ore processing of 100% listen the PVP'ers can't understand indys are an evil that the game needs how many PVP'ers are willing to spend 20 hrs a month mining ? No of course not they would be gone out of game if they had to, but it's people like me who do it so they can spend their time blowing up one another, I don't seek fame or pat on the head, just to be allowed to have my part of the game I pay for is that so much to ask, I often hear if they take roids X's out of empire then it will make null better, ive seen toons roaming in noob systems that have been in game for over 5+ years mining pathetic roids cause they are avoiding getting ganked by living where Concord will spawn quickly and save them, so no nerfing hi isn't gonna send people who just want to indy down into low or null, an indy mind is different then a pvp'ers of destruction personality types, this would only lead to unsubscribes which indys have many alts including me which CCP wants too keep
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-10-26 12:51:58 UTC
This thread is going places!

Not really, and I have never seen so many essay sized run-on sentences in one place before. No.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#11 - 2012-10-26 13:07:15 UTC
And yet you read it and even commented...who is the bigger boob?Big smile
Dani Lizardov
Dishonorable Duel Disturbance
Deepwater Hooligans
#12 - 2012-11-21 14:01:36 UTC
SOV 2.0

1. Remove fixed True Sec Index!
0.0 = NPC Space
-0.1 to -0.3 = Territorial Clam Unit
-0.31 to -0.6 = Territorial Clam Unit + I HUB
-0.61 to -1.0 = Territorial Clam Unit + I HUB + Station
** IF the system is not -0.61 to -1.0 and it has a Station, that Station should be NPC owned

2. Make the Sec Index to be player activity dependent
The more you use one system the lower the True sec goes
To get to -1.0 you should have a lot of people actually using the benefits that system provides.

Benefits:
+ No more empty 0.0 spaces. If you don't use it becomes NPC space
+ Allows new alliances and smaller groups to develop a system/s and to make them there own. Means more people in 0.0
+ Concentrate Bigger alliances in to strongholds allowing them to profit.
+ Makes the player activity the actual income source for the group.

Player activity, how to calculate?
- NPC killed per 24h
- gravimetric sites done per 24h
- asteroids destroyed per 24h
- Active pilots in the system
They are a lot of numbers out there already available. You just need to tweak the formula until you find the balance you wish.

Now Fix It please.
Sometimes the easiest solutions are the best once.

DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#13 - 2012-11-21 14:14:11 UTC
If you want to mine your heart out in null, you could...I don't know...join a nullsec alliance? This seems like the simplest path to achieving your dreams.
Dani Lizardov
Dishonorable Duel Disturbance
Deepwater Hooligans
#14 - 2012-11-21 15:14:35 UTC
Yeap it sound simple as that, Join a null sec alliance.

But there are people that don't wanna join already established alliances. They want to create there own.

More alliances = more politics = more action = more fun :)

Sure, you can join Test and be the 10001 member in there, but that wont solve the problem with Boring EMPTY 0.0 space :)