Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Still havn't addressed the Omen having a worthless bonus which only exists to be able to still use the primary weapon system.
Everyone is going to whinge that the stabber is too underpowered even though matar is still the best subcap PVP ship line up. Prepare for the drone removal rage about not being extremely versatile now and having to selectivly engage.
The caracal got a little less fat, yay!
The thorax was relativly untouched.

I am disappoint. You said you were trying to balance this right? And people are STILL calling that matar ships need more DPS potential. Is it too late to petition and demand a SP refund on my amarr skills so I can re-distribute fully into matar like CCP intends?

The new Omen does more damage at every range than a Stabber, while still having dozens of other fitting options, be it brawl-fits, armor med-range, armor long-range etc...
I think it is not too much to ask for a Stabber that can do more than just mediocre kiting. And the argument that Matar have other useful ships is a terrible argument.

mm.. well thorax can do very nice dmg with rails as it happens but the stabber could do with another turret really although not sure about armour tanking ships in this group maybe 800mm's might be okay but armour tanking definitely needs some re-balancing

Went to Duality to test the new Caracal. I tried 3 different fits, RLML, HML, and HAM. All were able to fit with no serious issues.

I found the RLML setup to be pretty fun. Since I'm lazy and can't be bothered to move to the combat system, I just fit it and took it into some belts in Period Basis.

I had no problems eliminating the belt rats no matter their size. I was able to get under the BS guns, but at the risk of getting neuted by the bloods. BS rats took a bit of time. But it wasn't difficult. My lows were all BCS II. Rigs were EM shield resist and extender rigs. Shield tank was 2x LSE II, prop mod, long point, and webber. I never needed any of it except the tank ofc. Fury Light missile range on the Caracal is pretty decent at 51km. Ofc this will get nerfed. So CN will likely be the ammo of choice for LM dps projection.

The increased RoF made waiting for the 3 volleys to pop frigates go by fast. Cruisers took about 5 volleys. BS ofc took longer. I never felt in any danger at range or even right on top of them. I was able to get under their tracking w/o prop mod running. At range my shield buffer got down to about 2/3.

HML fit required using one of the lows for a coproc. Since the forth BCS did little for my over all dps due to stacking penalties, I wasn't worried about it. The others remained BCS IIs. Kept the same rigs. Dropped one LSE II to free up the necessary grid. Swapped it for a sebo because of the HML range being so very long. (Que incoming HML range nerf statements.) The HML fit was nice due the the Caracal's range bonuses.

I was never in any danger. Even using Rage ammo, 1 shot the frigs, 3 shot the cruisers, took out the BS in fairly short order. Atm CN range is around 120km. With range rigs I could get 140km, necessitating another sebo. Once the range nerfs go through, a range fit will be rigs and sebo, with normal fits matching missile range with the Caracal's inate locking range.

My vollies were doing in the neighborhood of 1100 per shot on their armor.

HAM fit was noticebly worse. I swapped the coproc for a RCU II, and then had to downgrade my long point from T2 to meta 4 to free up enough cpu to fit them. I also included 1ea rigor and flare rig, as well as a warhead calefaction rig ot make the HAMs better at actually applying damage.

The range was about right at 25km. I was thinking happy thoughts about proper pvp ranges with a long point until I noticed how little damage was actually being applied. My applied dps (Rage or CN) was worse than the HML Furies I was using by half. Yes, half! 539 damage per volley vs BS-size targets is crap.

Frigs took 3 shots, cruisers about 5, and BS took even longer. Because of the short range and weaker applied dps, I was constantly getting neuted out and unable to stay in webber range. They were even able to MWD out of missile range entirely at some points. And with no option to deal dps at longer ranges, I had no choice but to follow along with 0 transversal to even get my missiles to hit. The extra time and crappy transversal meant I was getting pounded. It was so bad I actually went back to station and refit, pulling my long point for an extra hardener.

Oops, neuted. So much for the hardener. Shields still got down to 1/3 before I finally killed the rats.

I hope the new missile changes get on Duality. I want to test this again with the new stats. Imo, the HML fit was best, with RLML fit being a close second. HAMs, as usual, still suck. And I don't think they will be any better come Retribution unless CCP does something drastic with them, like massively buff their stats.

Eve fitting tool showed the following raw dps numbers w/o drones using high dps ammo:
RLML IIs: 250dps
HML IIs: 350dps
HAM IIs: 450dps

Perhaps when TNP skills are being applied to HAMs I will see a better result. Until then, they suck ballz.

I know folks will qq about this report being vs NPC bloods. But what is important is that I was able to control the engagement criteria so as to get very similar conditions for all the combat encounters. And neuting is something that will be encountered. So I feel that bloods are a good NPC to test against.

Nobody is having an argument with you, people just repeatedly point out that you are completely clueless, your posts are silly and lack subject matter.

Also I agree the cap bonus towards lasers on the Omen has become obsolete with the buff to hybrids and the mechanics of projectiles etc etc
The reasons for the cap bonus is easily solved by a bigger capacitor if necesary, however the Omen like all other Amarr ships deserve more than 1 proper bonus.

Tracking seems a Gallente trait and I would stay away from anything fancy, however I really think an optimal bonus would be usefull for the Omen though ofcourse if too effective a few drones would have to be cut off.

The optimal bonus will work for the Omen because it is fast enough to kite if necesary and it can switch ammo almost instantly. The Apocalypse benefits a lot from this bonus and is perfect at hitting suppert ships at a distance. Attack Cruisers are not supposed to last for a long time, but more like hit'n'run aka do'or'die and as such the cap bonus doesn't matter much.
Just make sure the Omen has enough capacitor to keep everything running for a few minutes. Things like Dual reps can be fed through nos and cap booster anyhow at the cost of tackle. A good dilemma if you ask me...

Pinky

Lol major killz is at it again... Biased matari fotm trolling. I think I need a hash tag for this

Anyway... Ship stats are looking more and more polished, good job fozzie and crew.

^^ That could be interesting

On a 2 x Gyro, 1 x TE Stabber, the point at which RLMLs (with Faction Missiles) become better than 220s is about 24-35Km (depending on Ammo, skills etc). Due to their lower range, HAMs never perform better than a 220 (ignoring tracking/signature because these are unpredictable, but reasonably balance each other). Fitting HMLs only does approx 10 more DPS but limits fitting options, IMHO RLMLs are better for a Stabber.

This means that as it stands within pointing ranges an additional turret is better than a ML. Outside of point ranges HMLs and RLMLs outperform Turrets. Therefore, an additional turret is better for most use cases of Stabbers.

Changing the bonus of a Stabber to "5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret, Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire" would be, however, another way to balance the Stabber and keep the split damage.

It would make fitting 2 x Missile Launchers a "no-brainer" for the 2 utility highs. Either HAMs for a Max Damage fit: which would do comparable damage to 220s (agaisnt Webbed/TP'd targets); or RLMLs for a Max Tank fit, where RLMLs would do comparable damage to a 220 at kiting ranges (agaisnt Frigs/Unwebbed targets) with the ability to project damage further.

I'd accept this as a balance for Stabbers; but think it's the lesser option to adding another Turret. It requires far more skill training to fly effectively, is harder to get the best out of the ship and introduces a weird new type of bonus. Adding a 5th Turret is simple, and leaves the hull versatile.

I'd suggest leaving it a 4/2* split though, because a 50/50 split will make Stabbers do more damage with Missiles at kiting ranges (providing you increased its CPU to compensate). Decreasing the flavour as "Turrets first, missiles secondary".

* A 4/4 split would be interesting.... make the second bonus a "5% bonus Medium Projectile Turret Falloff and 5% bonus to Light, Heavy Missile and Assault Missile velocity"... and give you the option to fit a missile boat or a turret ship.

The amount of dumb posted in these threads is astonishing. Truly. Why the hell would you want to fit scram/web on an omen? Or dual reps? Good god. With te's the new omen hits out optimal at 29km with scorch and with heat does 500 dps. Please put scram and web and dual reps on yours m8rs. o7o7o7.