EVE General Discussion

I appear to be wrong. My apologies.

I am not an agent of the Order, I merely support it. I unfortunately cannot participate as CONCORD thinks poorly of my attempts to coerce the populace into donating their ships' modules and contents to my own cause.

A friendly bump for a service/product I endorse and recommend....would bump again.

No she hasn't and i wouldn't even blame her for believing i'm just like the average guy.
She can't know that i not only shoot pods, but also actually entertain the people of Hek, when i'm around.

Thank you, Vaerah ! :D


Anyway ... i have to correct my false belief ... connecting "emergent" to "new" isn't even stated in the definition.

Argueing about this makes no sense, tbh. Every action is emergent, as long as it influences the lives of others
and produces new sets of possibilities. Hell, even lack of action can be called emergent, because not doing
something enables others to do it.

I saw that there's a new thread about how boring EvE is ... at least for some people. This is the real problem
we need to address. Our universe lacks content creators more than anything else. It's full of lemmings doing
something that could be seen as their every day job ... ingame ... instead of realising that it's a game, which
enables people to actually not do what they already do anyway ... being a lemming.


Disclaimer: The next paragraph doesn't address anybody who actively tries to influence the lives of others.

I see the flames of people saying "don't tell me how to play" already coming, but that's not what i'm doing.
What i'm telling you is that you ... the general YOU ... actually play far behind your own abilities of having actual
ACTIVE INFLUENCE onto others, instead of the passive, "working as intended" influence you have as the lemming you are.


This thread has no point. People complaining about how others play, demanding that they be left alone so they
can play how they want, while at the same time ignoring that they are demanding from others that they don't
play how they want. People talking bad about those who try to have influence and play the game in ways it allows,
ignoring that they are only pissed off about the mirrored image of their own incapabilities.


In sum, one can say that the lemmings are simply mad about being lemmings and blame those who aren't.

Why would you ask him to? It's completely irrelevant, he's arguing against some hypothetical line of debate about which things are more boring, which is inherently pointless and which I haven't even seen being made in this thread. It's a giant pointless strawman fallacy.

Wouldn't it be more productive, if you really were interested in discussing boredom, to find traditionally boring activities, find people who enjoy them, and then ask them why they enjoy them? That would still be way offtopic in this thread, of course, but if you find a place to do that, that would be a way do move it forward in a productive direction.

That would be boring.

Thank you. Exactly what i hoped for.

In other words:
People have no clue, but believe they have and thus talk crap about things they don't *really* understand.

It's like in the real world. They are totally disconnected with actual reality. Like watching the news and believing to
know what "War" is, because the news shows what "War" is ... ignoring the fact that it's impossible to know what "War"
really is unless one is stuck right in the middle of it.

People who ignore feelings involved in whatever happens and thus reduce everything to a few words
that don't actually express the experiences and depth that is part of the actual reality.

Welcome to "modern" civilization.

I guess you answered a rhetorical question. Oops.

I'm not quite sure i really said it that way.

Everyday-people with everyday-lives hardly create new possibilites for others, thus it's not actually "emergent".
It's just "working as intended" without creating any new sets of possibilities.

Have a conscious thought and do something totally out of your normal behavioral patterns,
which influences at least one other person. That's emergent behaviour.

Doing the same thing you do every day, every week, for months until you die ... that's not.

That's what lemmings do and they keep society up with their crap lives,
but calling it emergent makes it look like everybody is actually awesome,
although 99% of the people are just boring assholes only caring about themselves.

You're a hater. No point in talking to you any further.

See, we keep having these debates, over the facts of the matter. I trained ice mining on an alt, and moved my ice miner to Halaima, both recently, with the goal of observing the social interactions between the miners and the agents. You didn't make an alt to go observe, and your main has poor sec status so you don't take him to Halaima.

I'm not saying that you should stay out of the discussion for this reason, there's a practical side and a theoretical side, and I'm not trying to privilege one over the other. I'm not saying that my personal experience is more valuable than anyone else's personal experience, either. If an agent comes out and says "oh, tons of people pay", then he and I will in effect be calling each other liars, and it will be up to the reader to decide whom to believe.

I'm just saying, I keep making statements that are obviously based on my personal observations, and you keep asking me how I figure them. The answer is always the same. I was there. I may be lying, and I may be a poor observer, although I'll tell you now that neither of those is true. My personal observation is that half of the miners that stayed in the NewOrder systems were there to observe how it all played out, and the other half stayed to petition the NewOrder repeatedly. Then of course you had the odd person newly arrived, mining is a profession most do early and then leave after a time...but there was no rational reason to keep mining in Halaima, when you could jsut move somewhere else. Since part of paying the 10m was putting a statement of support in your bio for the new order, it was easy to see who had paid, or who pretended to pay and just put the statement in their bio, which would have the same effect, of course. I would mine for days without seeing a single person pay, watching many bumpers come through. It was my observation that the bumpers would mainly claim they were doing it to stop botting, but that around 80% of them were actually more interested in starting arguments with the real at the computer miners, just trying to gather tears. Not that tear gathering doesn't have a long and storied history in EVE, but I found it ironic that these 'bumpers' would make fun of the miners for playing in hisec mining in safety, when they themselves had chosen to come to hisec and bump as their method of tear-gathering. In that sense, I found the bumpers and the ice miners to be more alike than different.