EVE General Discussion

And when was the last time you saw a factory producing tanks on the frontline?

You need to tell me that in the event of a protracted campaign whether any 0.0 ally would retain it's production in areas where the supply of ships and armory could be seriously threatened.

Highsec is and will always be used to retain supply - regardless of ease-of-use or cost - because of it's strategic benefits.

In other words, it can't be done and the costs are disproportionate.

“Whatever it takes” means drastically worsening the situation for highsec, both for the reason just listed and for the reason that incentives are needed to spur those who aren't already there. So no, hands will be on highsec in many new and interesting ways.

This is a good argument for the complete removal of all highsec production capabilities — so that the frontline actually has a chance of reaching the tank factory and needs to be relocated to a new place behind the front lines.

Easily.
You're assuming that GSF and TNT in it's entirety want to do production - all 10,140 of you.
You're assuming that every single char is a single person - all 10,140 of you.
You're assuming that not even 4 people could get together and share costs/facilities. If just 4 people share a POS then you have more moons than POS's.

You're assuming I can't do math.

And to be fair, I went to refute this last night and thought I'd let you off the hook because obvious is obvious.


I don't care about ice prices. Has no impact on me. You're just being silly.

You argued that production POS's would be too expensive. They can be setup so it is cheaper to produce at a POS than highsec station production. But if you're now saying that you could use the POS's (that you wouldn't setup) for moon goo bla bla... Which also means you would either buy or mine the ice ad infinitum.

If you really want to do this, at what point do we start factoring in the time it takes to produce in highsec and return the finished product to 0.0 using JF fuel etc. instead of a quick hauler trip to the array?

If we're going to start throwing in random variables then we will be here a long time.

Oh ffs Zim. You're better than that.

You quoted "roaming gangs" when I said "protracted campaign" - I'm not talking about "skirmishes" and you know it. (though, I spose a 500 man fleet might be called a "roaming gang" to GSF - who knows)

You're trying to tell me that in the event of a major campaign against you (or any 0.0 allly) that you would rely completely on resupply from within the frontline? Seriously? Maybe that's why you're wasting your time here and not running the Goons.

As for why have empire? You said yourself that it's not just about ISK, it's a LIFESTYLE choice. And I fully concur.

But really, empire building? Whose empire? You guys are whining you got nothing to do - so I'm assuming "empire building" isn't working very well for the people in it - is it now?

If we ignore the whole theft possibility, and the ridiculousness which is "hurr grant POS roles to everyone", you're still left with the costs of either fetching both minerals and fuel blocks, or the implicit cost of spending the time to extract and refine and haul the ore and the isotopes, the time and the fuel costs making the new fuel for the POS etc etc etc, and you're looking at the JF fuel costs of moving the goods to the main staging system/main trading hub in the region. All of these costs do add up, especially the time spent which is time you could've spent either doing something else in real life or spent doing other, more lucrative things in-game and rather just spent the money on making the goods in hisec and transporting the goods up from there.


Sure you did.


If you actually read what I'd written, you would've seen that I said production POSes were more expensive than hisec in a myriad of ways.

First of all, if you're running a mining POS, chances are you can run a smaller POS than if you run a production POS, which means your costs are higher than if you were to do just mining on that moon. Secondly, you've got to either expend time and JF fuel to haul minerals and fuel to the POS, or you've got to expend time and energy to mine minerals and isotopes etc to turn into the appropriate fuel blocks, time you could've spent doing other, more lucrative things. Thirdly, you have to then haul your maelstroms to the staging system or market hub, and in my case that would equal just as many JF jumps (and consequently just as high cost) as jumping them directly from hisec.

So in short, using hisec I can spend a few hours setting up the production, then wait for the production to finish, and then setup a courier contract and have someone else haul them to UMI (or jump them myself for even less cost vOv), while you've either spent most of the month hauling fuel and minerals to keep the POS fuelled and fed with minerals, or you've spent more or less the same amount of isk getting minerals and fuel hauled to the production system, spent that fuel to make the maelstrom, and then expended the same amount of JF fuel yet again to haul the maelstroms from that system to the current staging system.

And let's hope you don't have a nice case of theft (either from the POS or the station corp hangar) or the POS has a bad case of lead poisoning.

A roaming gang means exactly the same thing now as when you were in FA. You might've heard of them, it's the ones derping around ganking ratters and miners.


I would assume that a "major campaign against us", we would have a front where the majority of hostilities took place, and then there would be roaming gangs running around and harassing miners.

As for "resupply from within the frontline", I've no idea what you're on about, since I would assume the production, if nullsec industry were fixed, would be going on somewhere well behind the frontline.


Gee, it's almost like there might be a reason for this. Surely it couldn't be that CCP has made nullsec increasingly **** over the years in comparison to f.ex hisec.

^hahahaha

What the balls?

It is like the perfect mix of stupid and cliche.

Can't be real.

To do that, you will have to accept the fact that one of the real problems is the availability and (lack of) cost of highsec S&I slots.

No I don't accept that hypothesis.

It's lack of nullsec slots.

The issue is not about competition, it's about retention/recruitment to 0.0.

More 0.0 slots and NO cost in 0.0 makes highsec cost and availabilty irrelevant.

The reverse will just create impact on highseccers.

UNLESS - the intent is to force supply of highsec FROM 0.0 which is an entirely different argument.