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Reprocessing bug for ships that got upgrded mat req.
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Scarabeus Sacer
Vassagon
#1 - 2012-10-21 18:32:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Scarabeus Sacer
The reprocessing values of item that had their material requirements changed, like most frigs, retriever, procurer, ferox I think, use the OLD material requirements, NOT the ones from the new BP which was used to built it.

When is this going to be fixed? Its a pretty serious bug
Vanyr Andrard
VacuumTube
#2 - 2012-10-21 18:57:50 UTC
Scarabeus Sacer wrote:
The reprocessing values of item that had their material requirements changed, like most frigs, retriever, procurer, ferox I think, use the OLD material requirements, NOT the ones from the new BP which was used to built it.

When is this going to be fixed? Its a pretty serious bug


Feature, not a bug. Was done to prevent magic material generation by people building them prepatch.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#3 - 2012-10-21 19:25:32 UTC
They're in as extra materials, which are unaffected by ME, only affected by PE if they're in the main list, and unrecoverable with recycling.

There are a bunch of blueprints that are like that.

Considering that there are people who made /thouands/ of procurers pre patch (I only threw in a hundred or so), it's a smart way they handled it. I wouldn't expect it to change any time soon (or at all, really)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Scarabeus Sacer
Vassagon
#4 - 2012-10-21 19:45:44 UTC
I see. Yeah its a good way to prevent abuse.

Also sort of on this topic - the prices of procurers, retrievers and the aforementioned items, are WAY below their material costs. Are they ALL getting the math wrong? Retriever is selling for 22 mil, costs 27 to make. Procurer selling for 6.7 mil, costs 22 to make. Atron, selling for 290k, costs 350 to make..

...are all these people using outdated calculators or spreadsheets that container old BP info? Ive looked at some online, and most of them mislead you into thinking you are making huge profits...
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#5 - 2012-10-21 20:03:15 UTC
Those people are idiots that don't understand how profit works. It has been going on for... nine or so years.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#6 - 2012-10-21 20:13:08 UTC
Scarabeus Sacer wrote:
I see. Yeah its a good way to prevent abuse.

Also sort of on this topic - the prices of procurers, retrievers and the aforementioned items, are WAY below their material costs. Are they ALL getting the math wrong? Retriever is selling for 22 mil, costs 27 to make. Procurer selling for 6.7 mil, costs 22 to make. Atron, selling for 290k, costs 350 to make..

...are all these people using outdated calculators or spreadsheets that container old BP info? Ive looked at some online, and most of them mislead you into thinking you are making huge profits...



Well, with something like the procurer, I'd suspect it's people trying to cash out.

If they made them before the patch, then they're selling at around 3 times what they spent to make them. The retriever, likewise, cost them around 7 million to make.

So, they're making a significant profit, if not the profit they could make, if they sold at material level.

The biggest problem is the sheer volume that's sitting around in hangers. Procurers don't get used up much. So it'll take a long time for those thousands to be used. (Though if the ganks on macks keep happening, people moving into skiffs might be more viable. Not ungankable, nothing is, but it is quite a bit harder, if they're properly fitted)

So what you have is people selling at what's, to them, an acceptable profit to get their isk freed up and moving.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Scarabeus Sacer
Vassagon
#7 - 2012-10-22 00:13:25 UTC
If i was those guys, I would be making Skiffs - use up the procurers without having to build new ones and get a HUGE discount on them in the process :) You would effectively sell them for their real mineral cost and then some.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-10-22 09:26:34 UTC
Scarabeus Sacer wrote:
The reprocessing values of item that had their material requirements changed, like most frigs, retriever, procurer, ferox I think, use the OLD material requirements, NOT the ones from the new BP which was used to built it.

When is this going to be fixed? Its a pretty serious bug


Prior to the ship changes players queued up thousands of ships to manufacture before the BPO mineral changes occurred.

If they did not implement these changes players would have simply queued up tens of thousands of ships (basically reprocessing everything, buying up all minerals, etc) to take advantage of making billions of isk off magic materials.

Upside was the market wasn't ruined by people taking advantage of an exploit as has happened in the past. Down side is you can't reprocess these ships for full materials, which really the only people who are for the most part upset by this are the people who tried to take advantage of the exploit.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#9 - 2012-10-22 14:46:43 UTC
Scarabeus Sacer wrote:
I see. Yeah its a good way to prevent abuse.

Also sort of on this topic - the prices of procurers, retrievers and the aforementioned items, are WAY below their material costs. Are they ALL getting the math wrong? Retriever is selling for 22 mil, costs 27 to make. Procurer selling for 6.7 mil, costs 22 to make. Atron, selling for 290k, costs 350 to make..

...are all these people using outdated calculators or spreadsheets that container old BP info? Ive looked at some online, and most of them mislead you into thinking you are making huge profits...


They built the Procurers pre-patch, so even selling them at 6.7M ISK, I think they're making a huge profit.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#10 - 2012-10-22 15:20:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Scarabeus Sacer wrote:
The reprocessing values of item that had their material requirements changed, like most frigs, retriever, procurer, ferox I think, use the OLD material requirements, NOT the ones from the new BP which was used to built it.

When is this going to be fixed? Its a pretty serious bug

It is not a bug. it is working as intended.

Many industrialists built huge stock piles of those ships with the old requirements before the patch. The additional materials where added as extra materials which you do not get back thru reprocessing. If those ships now refined to the new mineral requirements, players would be able to reprocess them to get back far more minerals than went into them. I doubt this will ever be changed.

Personally I find it odd that they were so up tight about what would have been a short term exploit, while they let a huge exploit like the Faction Wars farming get into the game. Even after massive nerfs the new FW system is still being exploited.
Herr Hammer Draken
#11 - 2012-10-22 21:32:27 UTC
Scarabeus Sacer wrote:
I see. Yeah its a good way to prevent abuse.

Also sort of on this topic - the prices of procurers, retrievers and the aforementioned items, are WAY below their material costs. Are they ALL getting the math wrong? Retriever is selling for 22 mil, costs 27 to make. Procurer selling for 6.7 mil, costs 22 to make. Atron, selling for 290k, costs 350 to make..

...are all these people using outdated calculators or spreadsheets that container old BP info? Ive looked at some online, and most of them mislead you into thinking you are making huge profits...


Just forget trying to make any isk on these hulls for another 6 months. They were all overbuilt before the patch when they could be built much cheaper using the base minerals. You can read each BP and figure out the original build cost for yourself using the base mineral cost. There is a huge inventory of these ships that have been built and are not all sold yet. The supply is much greater than the demand. Thus the prices reflect that. But they are not selling for less than the original build cost.

One you see prices climb to the point that you can make a profit on these ships then build them. But expect it to take at least 6 months for the inventory to get used up. Oh by the way hint the same thing is going to happen to all of the winter update ships.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"