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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5001 - 2012-10-21 05:40:47 UTC
Faora Zod wrote:
Has any one brought up the reload time? Missile Launchers take 10 seconds, while guns take 5 not to mention the instant swap for lens.


Also incorrect.

Lasers swap instantly, projectiles take 10sec only hybribs swap in 5 seconds.
Lili Lu
#5002 - 2012-10-21 05:47:18 UTC
I'm Down wrote:
Why do I think you're just a dev in sheeps clothing... I've never once seen you disagree with their ideas yet history has shown they've had one disaster after another.... striking.

Lol. I've criticized the devs in plenty of threads. When I think they deserve it. Sorry I don't think like you that they deserve criticism for this change.

But go ahead and put your tin foil hat on. Big smile
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#5003 - 2012-10-21 07:17:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Noemi Nagano
Bouh Revetoile wrote:


Learn turret names please


Learn who you quoted please.

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

But I can't blame Noemi to don't know these things, she never flown a frigate. And she obviously never saw an Amarr cruiser BTW, not knowing what is a Heavy Pulse Laser.


.... I never named the lasers wrong here, I did Frig PvP and I am Amarr all l5 too in subcap combat. You mixed me up with some other guy, I see how good you are in being precise now ...

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Noemi, you know, I may never had fired a medium missile, but I fought them a lot more than you it seem, in conditions where these stats actually matter. How do you care for this when you shoot a BC ? HML hit cruisers very fine. "Your" killboard can attest it.


Never questioned this. And also never really thought yo had first hand experience with missiles. All those things you wrote here show you have not much of an idea about missiles apart from getting killed by them.


Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Though, I'd like to know from missiles experts that roam this thread : what is the problem of HML and Torp ?


Certainly you mean HAM and Torp, and not HML and Torp ...
Sigras
Conglomo
#5004 - 2012-10-21 08:34:19 UTC
I'm Down wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:
I'm Down wrote:
Yeah, those turrets that can hit any class ship for ~ full damage when webs/painters are used... regardless of size... or when traversal is low....

You have no ******* clue why missiles required all the previous buffs in their history or why people are arguing so adamantly against the nerf when it's 2 gd ships causing the problems, not the weapon itself.


"full damage" Ok, see that is where I question your logic. And then you notice the qualifiers you placed on that. Those same mods increase missile damage. So, what is your point?Roll

Arguing adamantly does not make one right. And those two ships will probably get their own trimming, later. But when you strip down the weapons to just themselves, it's been shown repeatedly in this thread that HM damage is much too high compared to other medium long range weapons. The current nerf will have them still doing the most damage at max range. They just won't being doing as close to those guns at short range.

Then these new weapon stats will be added onto the newly respecced hulls that use them. That's the whole point in the OP. To leave HMs as they are was complicating all the later rebalancing because they left HM boats too powerful. People are not flying Drakes and Tengus only because they have monster tanks. They're flying them because they also do much better damage at long range. That will now apparently be 10% less.

Also, there will be similar mechanics to increase damage application once the tracking mod changes come into the game. This is not the totality of the changes. Recognize we don't have the whole picture yet. Crying over one nerf amongst the mix is stupid, tbh.



You can't compare missiles damage to other weapons when it's not the same... It's like comparing Artilleries to fricking rails or beams.... Again, learn your history, there's a reason they are as high as they currently are.... because they never competed well in the past at lower DPS.

I've already said there are a multitude of ways to nerf HML's that don't require a direct damage nerf... the primary being range.

And you should realize that those qualifiers that make turrets of any size always hit for near full damage don't apply to missiles in the same regard.... especially if you go and nerf Missile exp velocity and radius.

Why do I think you're just a dev in sheeps clothing... I've never once seen you disagree with their ideas yet history has shown they've had one disaster after another.... striking.

I think the problem is that you're using your experience when saying that turrets apply more damage, and thats totally understandable, but not at all how you should go about balancing things.

everything has to be balanced around the best players. Sure against 90% of players, turrets will do more damage than missiles because they *herp* *derp* set approach and press F1, but you dont balance around all of the morons, you have to balance around the best.

I guarantee you'd be far better off in a drake than you would in a harbinger if the frigate tackling you were piloted by garmon

Its just like starcraft, right now im gold league, and I think storm is totally imba, its impossible to dodge and kills me every time, but they dont balance around people like me, they have to balance for the best people in the world, or the super GSL code S players would completely break the game.

Its the same here; they could balance around you fighting me, but if they did that, someone like garmon could use greater piloting skill to be completely unbeatable.
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#5005 - 2012-10-21 08:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Noemi Nagano
Just one thing about this here, ..

Lili Lu wrote:


And really either way the thing that will kill you the fastest is drones (which you will have to kill before they kill you). And this is how it should be.


I agree with you here. The main thing a BC should rely on to kill fast orbitting small stuff is drones. Then again you maybe see the logic behind this: Caldari have a good missile option, which will be able to deal a bit of damage too. And they have in the same time the smallest drone bay and smallest bandwith too. And a Drake has the worst option of those 4 tier2 BCs to fit some good utility high, getting a single small neut is normally all you can do.. So if you want to shift balance, then dont forget to rebalance this aspect either.

Thats my whole point, the whole time: assuming a system is not working in one aspect (thats what you do, when you say HML are OP because they deal too much damage on far out ranges compared to their turret peers) then one has to consider what happens when you nerf this system. You have to be aware of the consequences of a nerf for all those other aspects too. And in this case close combat DPS will suffer too much IMO (raw damage for faction/t1/fury HML will ALL get nerfed, same with some soft stats, so they have less damage and will apply this damage worse than they do now!). Maybe the dronebay-size and bandwith need to be adressed then to compensate those issues.

Note: I dont say "buff the Drakes dronebay". I do say think about the *whole* thing, and dont forget those details, because thats what could easily kill a ship as a working platform.

PS: A bit OT: apart from that, I dont deny relying on Drones for DPS is a bit painful, esp. under sentry fire ... I am not objecting to a Drone-buff. But it could be Drones are the same for CCP like missiles are, something they dont like too much because of serverload .. Roll

PPS: And one more note: for missiles there is really only one line in each class.For turrets there are options. Let me show you what I mean.

Turrets have normally faster firing, better tracking, lower alpha, shorter range options and bigger brothers with worse stats in tracking and RoF but more damage and range (for example dual180mm AC, 220mm AC and 425mm AC). So if you want to fit a Cane for anti-frig, you can use those smaller ones and still get a weapon bonus. This will cripple your ability to deal maximum DPS to bigger ships and longer ranges, but will enable you to hit smaller stuff pretty ok.

Missiles on the other hand have only one class - Heavy Missile Launchers for example, with the variations tech 1, meta, and so on. If a Drake wants to "downgrade" to be able to fight Frigs better it would have to use a different class, Rapid Light launchers for example. Then it will not get a bonus on that launchers though, because the ship bonus is only for Heavy and Heavy Assault ... of course it would be much work to change this all, still it might be hard to find good balance with everything if there are so many differences in turrets and missiles. Its a bit like Tachyons which are out of line with other long range large guns, simply because there is no equivalent railgun or artillery.

Dont get me wrong, I dont say this *has* to be changed and brought in line. But I do say again - if you neglect those differences then you might not be able to make the right decisions.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5006 - 2012-10-21 10:06:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Onictus wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Standard and faction ammo has been severly nerfed (less damage, less range, bigger exp. radius) in hitting smaller stuff.


Why should heavy missiles hit frigs for full damage?

Oh, yeah... I'm so going to hit Dramiel with HPLs. Roll



One may note that you don't use T2 close range ammo on smaller stuff either unless you have a huginn buddy webbing it down for you


I know Conflag is really bad ammo against fast frigates like Dramiel.

I'm Down wrote:
Yeah, those turrets that can hit any class ship for ~ full damage when webs/painters are used... regardless of size... or when traversal is low....


I want to see:
- Rail Brutix doing 400+ dps at 70+ km
- Beam Harbinger doing 400 dps at 100 km

Nevermind... Those don't exist.

Oh, and you probably want to watch this. A lot of info about how turrets work in game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JvfhVXbMgc8
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#5007 - 2012-10-21 11:31:30 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Just one thing about this here, ..
Missiles on the other hand have only one class - Heavy Missile Launchers for example, with the variations tech 1, meta, and so on. If a Drake wants to "downgrade" to be able to fight Frigs better it would have to use a different class, Rapid Light launchers for example. Then it will not get a bonus on that launchers though, because the ship bonus is only for Heavy and Heavy Assault ... of course it would be much work to change this all, still it might be hard to find good balance with everything if there are so many differences in turrets and missiles. Its a bit like Tachyons which are out of line with other long range large guns, simply because there is no equivalent railgun or artillery.

Dont get me wrong, I dont say this *has* to be changed and brought in line. But I do say again - if you neglect those differences then you might not be able to make the right decisions.

I want the same with drones !

And if you think the smallest medium guns hit frigates fine without a web, you are very wrong. I repeat : without a web or a neut, even the smallest medium short range turrets can be outtracked easily (I can do it, so anyone can...)

Noemi, you never answered : what are the problems of HAM and Torp ? Maybe they are not that obvious if even CCP didn't know what they are...
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#5008 - 2012-10-21 11:38:55 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Thats my whole point, the whole time: assuming a system is not working in one aspect (thats what you do, when you say HML are OP because they deal too much damage on far out ranges compared to their turret peers) then one has to consider what happens when you nerf this system. You have to be aware of the consequences of a nerf for all those other aspects too. And in this case close combat DPS will suffer too much IMO (raw damage for faction/t1/fury HML will ALL get nerfed, same with some soft stats, so they have less damage and will apply this damage worse than they do now!). Maybe the dronebay-size and bandwith need to be adressed then to compensate those issues.

I missed this one ! HML are a LONG RANGE weapon. They are not meant to be competing at SHORT RANGE. Will you ever understand this ?

And don't answer about HAM if it's not to point their problems.
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#5009 - 2012-10-21 11:44:46 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Just one thing about this here, ..
Missiles on the other hand have only one class - Heavy Missile Launchers for example, with the variations tech 1, meta, and so on. If a Drake wants to "downgrade" to be able to fight Frigs better it would have to use a different class, Rapid Light launchers for example. Then it will not get a bonus on that launchers though, because the ship bonus is only for Heavy and Heavy Assault ... of course it would be much work to change this all, still it might be hard to find good balance with everything if there are so many differences in turrets and missiles. Its a bit like Tachyons which are out of line with other long range large guns, simply because there is no equivalent railgun or artillery.

Dont get me wrong, I dont say this *has* to be changed and brought in line. But I do say again - if you neglect those differences then you might not be able to make the right decisions.

I want the same with drones !

And if you think the smallest medium guns hit frigates fine without a web, you are very wrong. I repeat : without a web or a neut, even the smallest medium short range turrets can be outtracked easily (I can do it, so anyone can...)

Noemi, you never answered : what are the problems of HAM and Torp ? Maybe they are not that obvious if even CCP didn't know what they are...


I answered this numerous times, but agreed, I never again answered on your question. If you are really interested in getting an answer I will: Torps and HAMs have the following issues atm:

1) without multiple helping modules they dont apply to targets of the same size (mediums for HAM, large for Torp)

2) their flight time doesnt help either to time helping modules (more a PvE issue than PvP)

3) their short range is in fact even shorter in Eve than the numbers in EFT and info screen may show

4) the Caldari Torp-hulls suck, for HAM there is only the Drake (NH doesnt work with HAM at all!) which does better with HML (short range does not help the Drake too much, small drone bay is one of the issues there).

The only Torp ships which work right now are bombers and the Phoon (although I already said I am not sure if its the Phoon itself which lets this otherwise poor system shine .. or if its just the broken Raven which lets Torps look so sucky).

With the incoming change I see a very small buff to Torps in regards of application (with GMP on l5 it will be a bit better than now), for HAM this buff is countered already by a nerf in the soft stats. The range of rage Torps and HAMs will be reduced some more. So no, I dont see the next patch will make them work on hulls where they didnt work before. Reduced PG may help the NH, but as the NH is not really good at all right now we will have to wait if it will be better after a change (in 2013+).

Btw, I dont understand what you meant with the first sentence - Drones are really completely different, arent they?
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#5010 - 2012-10-21 11:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Noemi Nagano
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Thats my whole point, the whole time: assuming a system is not working in one aspect (thats what you do, when you say HML are OP because they deal too much damage on far out ranges compared to their turret peers) then one has to consider what happens when you nerf this system. You have to be aware of the consequences of a nerf for all those other aspects too. And in this case close combat DPS will suffer too much IMO (raw damage for faction/t1/fury HML will ALL get nerfed, same with some soft stats, so they have less damage and will apply this damage worse than they do now!). Maybe the dronebay-size and bandwith need to be adressed then to compensate those issues.

I missed this one ! HML are a LONG RANGE weapon. They are not meant to be competing at SHORT RANGE. Will you ever understand this ?

And don't answer about HAM if it's not to point their problems.


.... you are really not getting it. Do you once and for all drop this BS now about comparisons I never did? I didnt compare HML with short range systems. For you a bit bigger:

I did NOT compare HML with SHORT RANGE SYSTEMS.

I compare HML on SHORT RANGES with other LONG RANGE systems on short range... and just for you: other MEDIUM LR systems that is. You are so set in your Gallentean mind that you will fail to see again and again. Really, get missile skills and use them, so you actually get a clue.

ANY OTHER LONG RANGE SYSTEM has SHORT RANGE AMMO, which will give HIGHER DPS (RF EMP M and so on). HML has Fury, which right now may have too long range, but will be nerfed a LOT after the patch, less damage, very much nerfed application (in both numbers, exp. velo and radius!) and very short range. If you compare those DPS numbers, HML will be screwed there with the incoming changes. Completely. Besides: HML as they will be after this patch cant be considered a LONG RANGE system anymore, because their range will be medium at best - 25% cut of from what they have now. If you dont put rigs in your ship to snipe. Because there are no modules to change missile range ...
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#5011 - 2012-10-21 12:01:55 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
I answered this numerous times, but agreed, I never again answered on your question. If you are really interested in getting an answer I will: Torps and HAMs have the following issues atm:

1) without multiple helping modules they dont apply to targets of the same size (mediums for HAM, large for Torp)

2) their flight time doesnt help either to time helping modules (more a PvE issue than PvP)

3) their short range is in fact even shorter in Eve than the numbers in EFT and info screen may show

4) the Caldari Torp-hulls suck, for HAM there is only the Drake (NH doesnt work with HAM at all!) which does better with HML (short range does not help the Drake too much, small drone bay is one of the issues there).

The only Torp ships which work right now are bombers and the Phoon (although I already said I am not sure if its the Phoon itself which lets this otherwise poor system shine .. or if its just the broken Raven which lets Torps look so sucky).

With the incoming change I see a very small buff to Torps in regards of application (with GMP on l5 it will be a bit better than now), for HAM this buff is countered already by a nerf in the soft stats. The range of rage Torps and HAMs will be reduced some more. So no, I dont see the next patch will make them work on hulls where they didnt work before. Reduced PG may help the NH, but as the NH is not really good at all right now we will have to wait if it will be better after a change (in 2013+).

Btw, I dont understand what you meant with the first sentence - Drones are really completely different, arent they?

Finally some materials. In fact, you actually pointed these problems, and I already answered them, but you ignored me, like always when something is not to your taste.

1) See GMP skill applyed. Same size target will be hit fine. 25% is HUGE, not small. And add the fitting buff to HAM. Use a web if speed is still a problem. Use a turret ship if you want the advantages of turrets.

2) HM velocity is increased, and we don't balance a weapon system for pve.

3) See acceleration corrected : actual range will now be very closer from the theoretical range.

4) BC and BS will be adressed later, probably for the next summer expansion, but it might be sooner than this.

I think you should have read the OP more carefully...

And I understand now why you prefer to smack talk and discredit your interlocutors instead of arguing.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#5012 - 2012-10-21 12:06:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Thats my whole point, the whole time: assuming a system is not working in one aspect (thats what you do, when you say HML are OP because they deal too much damage on far out ranges compared to their turret peers) then one has to consider what happens when you nerf this system. You have to be aware of the consequences of a nerf for all those other aspects too. And in this case close combat DPS will suffer too much IMO (raw damage for faction/t1/fury HML will ALL get nerfed, same with some soft stats, so they have less damage and will apply this damage worse than they do now!). Maybe the dronebay-size and bandwith need to be adressed then to compensate those issues.

I missed this one ! HML are a LONG RANGE weapon. They are not meant to be competing at SHORT RANGE. Will you ever understand this ?

And don't answer about HAM if it's not to point their problems.


.... you are really not getting it. Do you once and for all drop this BS now about comparisons I never did? I didnt compare HML with short range systems. For you a bit bigger:

I did NOT compare HML with SHORT RANGE SYSTEMS.

I compare HML on SHORT RANGES with other LONG RANGE systems on short range... and just for you: other MEDIUM LR systems that is. You are so set in your Gallentean mind that you will fail to see again and again. Really, get missile skills and use them, so you actually get a clue.

ANY OTHER LONG RANGE SYSTEM has SHORT RANGE AMMO, which will give HIGHER DPS (RF EMP M and so on). HML has Fury, which right now may have too long range, but will be nerfed a LOT after the patch, less damage, very much nerfed application (in both numbers, exp. velo and radius!) and very short range. If you compare those DPS numbers, HML will be screwed there with the incoming changes. Completely. Besides: HML as they will be after this patch cant be considered a LONG RANGE system anymore, because their range will be medium at best - 25% cut of from what they have now. If you dont put rigs in your ship to snipe. Because there are no modules to change missile range ...

And you are still ignoring tracking. T2 short range ammo have a range of 9km. At 9km, even with the tracking bonus, you are not gonna track ANYTHING. You are always asking me to try some missile boat, but YOU should try a rail/beam/arty boat as well I think, you would realize how mighty HML are at short range compared to long range turrets. Even a cruiser at 20km can easily outtrack long range turrets, provided it have a speed advantage.

PS : for the T2 ammo, LR and SR gun and missiles are kind of reverse : short range missiles get the long range ammo and weak damage application while long range missiles are the ones for damage application + damage application ammo ; both get high damage low damage application ammo.
For turret, it is short range turret with high damage application and long range turret with low damage application. Tracking bonus on short range ammo is only here to allow them to hit something, really.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5013 - 2012-10-21 12:07:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Thats my whole point, the whole time: assuming a system is not working in one aspect (thats what you do, when you say HML are OP because they deal too much damage on far out ranges compared to their turret peers) then one has to consider what happens when you nerf this system. You have to be aware of the consequences of a nerf for all those other aspects too. And in this case close combat DPS will suffer too much IMO (raw damage for faction/t1/fury HML will ALL get nerfed, same with some soft stats, so they have less damage and will apply this damage worse than they do now!). Maybe the dronebay-size and bandwith need to be adressed then to compensate those issues.

I missed this one ! HML are a LONG RANGE weapon. They are not meant to be competing at SHORT RANGE. Will you ever understand this ?

And don't answer about HAM if it's not to point their problems.


.... you are really not getting it. Do you once and for all drop this BS now about comparisons I never did? I didnt compare HML with short range systems. For you a bit bigger:

I did NOT compare HML with SHORT RANGE SYSTEMS.

I compare HML on SHORT RANGES with other LONG RANGE systems on short range... and just for you: other MEDIUM LR systems that is. You are so set in your Gallentean mind that you will fail to see again and again. Really, get missile skills and use them, so you actually get a clue.

ANY OTHER LONG RANGE SYSTEM has SHORT RANGE AMMO, which will give HIGHER DPS (RF EMP M and so on). HML has Fury, which right now may have too long range, but will be nerfed a LOT after the patch, less damage, very much nerfed application (in both numbers, exp. velo and radius!) and very short range. If you compare those DPS numbers, HML will be screwed there with the incoming changes. Completely. Besides: HML as they will be after this patch cant be considered a LONG RANGE system anymore, because their range will be medium at best - 25% cut of from what they have now. If you dont put rigs in your ship to snipe. Because there are no modules to change missile range ...


OK in what magical world does RF EMP to more damage than HMLs with CN scorge? or Rails? Beams are probably close, probably.

and HMLs will still be plenty long range, 90km listed distance god damn sure isn't short learn to fit rigs.
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#5014 - 2012-10-21 12:14:44 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:


1) See GMP skill applyed. Same size target will be hit fine. 25% is HUGE, not small. And add the fitting buff to HAM. Use a web if speed is still a problem. Use a turret ship if you want the advantages of turrets.


Explosion radius and explosion velocity will get nerfed for HAMs. So there is not a 25% improvement. But as a non-missile-user you will fail to see this :) (has been discussed before btw, read those postings).

Bouh Revetoile wrote:


2) HM velocity is increased, and we don't balance a weapon system for pve.


Has never been said PvE should be a reason to balance. Except by all the Drake-haters - "Drake can do l4s OMG!!" ...

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

3) See acceleration corrected : actual range will now be very closer from the theoretical range.


That indeed we have to see.


Bouh Revetoile wrote:

I think you should have read the OP more carefully...


Says the guy who

1) mixed HML and HAM in his posting

2) doesnt read what I compare

3) blamed me numerous times for things which I never did (without a single attempt for an excuse afterwards, btw ...)

4) doesnt understand how buffing one thing while nerfing other relevant stats may result not in a huge buff but maybe even a nerf

5) has no first hand idea of how missiles work.

.. and so on.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#5015 - 2012-10-21 12:28:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
Noemi Nagano wrote:
ANY OTHER LONG RANGE SYSTEM has SHORT RANGE AMMO, which will give HIGHER DPS (RF EMP M and so on).

HML pre nerf have *always* more dps than arties, whatever the range.

Edit : fail quote
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#5016 - 2012-10-21 12:35:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
Noemi Nagano wrote:

Explosion radius and explosion velocity will get nerfed for HAMs. So there is not a 25% improvement. But as a non-missile-user you will fail to see this :) (has been discussed before btw, read those postings).


Now I'm sure you are either dishonnest or have reading problems. Only HIG DAMMAGE short range missiles ammo will see their explosion radius/velocity nerfed, and that is only to counter the GMP skill applying.

T2 ammo are not meant to be used for everything.
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#5017 - 2012-10-21 12:37:22 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
OK in what magical world does RF EMP to more damage than HMLs with CN scorge? or Rails? Beams are probably close, probably.

and HMLs will still be plenty long range, 90km listed distance god damn sure isn't short learn to fit rigs.

HML pre nerf have *always* more dps than arties, whatever the range.
And missiles have rigs too.
And dps at 90km for medium arties is laughable.



I didnt write this. Learn to F*RIGGIN QUOTE.

And apologise for all those postings where you tell lies about what I wrote.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#5018 - 2012-10-21 12:42:34 UTC
Corrected, my apologies. Don't use it as a pretext for avoiding all the relevant things.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5019 - 2012-10-21 12:46:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
ANY OTHER LONG RANGE SYSTEM has SHORT RANGE AMMO, which will give HIGHER DPS (RF EMP M and so on).

HML pre nerf have *always* more dps than arties, whatever the range.

Edit : fail quote



Theoretically you can use quake and get more DPS....it also takes you into 1400mm tracking ranges, you'll miss anything short of a webbed BS with a MWD on.


Oh and you need three Gryostabs to do it.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5020 - 2012-10-21 12:48:16 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
and very short range


Compared to what? Quake? Javelin? Gleam?