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How Would You Change Nullsec?
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Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#81 - 2012-10-20 21:47:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Karrl Tian
Make it a completely separate shard with no ability for isk/assets to be sent there. No more pvp'ers cheating the system with highsec alts and highsec PvE. They would actually have to live and PvE in all that wonderful empty space they own.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2012-10-20 21:48:02 UTC
Karrl Tian wrote:
Make it a completely separate shard that couldn't have ISK sent to characters there. No more pvp'ers cheating the system with highsec alts and highsec PvE, they would actually have live and PvE in all that wonderful empty space they own.

just fix industry and I'm right there with you bud
Hans Zwaardhandler
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#83 - 2012-10-20 21:54:09 UTC
Alright, this thread exploded pretty quickly. I'm interested in the replies, but why is it everyone wants local to be removed in null?
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#84 - 2012-10-20 21:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Karrl Tian
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Alright, this thread exploded pretty quickly. I'm interested in the replies, but why is it everyone wants local to be removed in null?


They don't understand how it works, otherwise they'd be clamoring for CCP to remove DOTLAN instead. There's plenty of sneakiness to be had in null even with local but you can't hide where you've been ratting for the last hour.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-10-20 21:56:21 UTC
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Alright, this thread exploded pretty quickly. I'm interested in the replies, but why is it everyone wants local to be removed in null?

Not everybody, just people who either hate null for some reason and want null to suffer, or people who thinks removing local from null will make ganking so much easier, when the only thing which'd happen is that null would depopulate even further than it is right now.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#86 - 2012-10-20 21:58:06 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Karrl Tian wrote:
Make it a completely separate shard that couldn't have ISK sent to characters there. No more pvp'ers cheating the system with highsec alts and highsec PvE, they would actually have live and PvE in all that wonderful empty space they own.

just fix industry and I'm right there with you bud

I'm still buzzed on this.

So we need to divert CCP to improve indy because you're what..... too lazy?

It's like, what, 10 seconds to log out and log back in on your highsec indy alt and build/research away in complete safety at a HS POS. Not like you have to actually TRAVEL....

1) Maybe you could try building MORE stations in your space.
2) Do your production/research in POS's like a huge chunk of us "carebears" already do and have done for years.
3) Get your alliances to stop charging so much fn refining tax so nullbears aren't forced to jump it out.
4) Get your corps/alliances to actually DEFEND the miners so they can drag in low/mid and high minerals/ice.

Been there, did it - the biggest setbacks to indy in 0.0 are at ALLIANCE level.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#87 - 2012-10-20 21:59:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Lord Zim wrote:
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Alright, this thread exploded pretty quickly. I'm interested in the replies, but why is it everyone wants local to be removed in null?

Not everybody, just people who either hate null for some reason and want null to suffer, or people who thinks removing local from null will make ganking so much easier, when the only thing which'd happen is that null would depopulate even further than it is right now.

I totally agree with this. Could be because I want 0.0 to improve so all the null whiners **** off back home.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-10-20 22:03:02 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Maybe you could try building MORE stations in your space.


we could fill an entire region with upgraded outposts and we'd still have less slots than some hisec systems

thank you for your valuable npc alt insights on 0.0 logistics

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#89 - 2012-10-20 22:09:20 UTC
OP, here's how I would change null-sec:

  • Fix sov timers or something. There has got to be a better game mechanic.
  • Give null-sec alliances more to fight over than just "space".
  • Fix null-sec manufacturing and make it better than high-sec can ever do.

    • Other than those points, I don't live in sov null so I can't answer with authority on the subject.

    The rest involves nerfing high-sec into the ******* dirt (manufacturing, incursions, missions, etc...) and converting a large number of high-sec systems into low-sec so that holding sov null gives a competitive advantage on all fronts, and low-sec becomes pretty much what high-sec is now; a place for the small groups to play and make money.

    Yes, there should be some empire space for newbies to play and learn and such, and high-sec should be contiguous so that relatively safe trade-routes and hubs can form, but high-sec as it stands today is too big and too easy.

    A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
    Lord Zim
    Gallente Federation
    #90 - 2012-10-20 22:09:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
    Touval Lysander wrote:
    So we need to divert CCP to improve indy because you're what..... too lazy?

    It's like, what, 10 seconds to log out and log back in on your highsec indy alt and build/research away in complete safety at a HS POS. Not like you have to actually TRAVEL....

    1) Maybe you could try building MORE stations in your space.
    2) Do your production/research in POS's like a huge chunk of us "carebears" already do and have done for years.
    3) Get your alliances to stop charging so much fn refining tax so nullbears aren't forced to jump it out.
    4) Get your corps/alliances to actually DEFEND the miners so they can drag in low/mid and high minerals/ice.

    Been there, did it - the biggest setbacks to indy in 0.0 are at ALLIANCE level.

    1) Deklein has less manufacturing capacity than a fair bit of hisec systems.
    2) Carebears who, in hisec, do their manufacturing in a POS, are by and large dumb. The only benefit of doing manufacturing in a POS is time, at the expense of effort.
    3) The instant the refining tax goes beyond 0.5% or thereabouts, it becomes profitable to compress and export the ore.
    4) There's absolutely no point. It's cheaper, more efficient and quicker to just buy in hisec and ship in, instead.

    Touval Lysander wrote:
    Been there, did it - the biggest setbacks to indy in 0.0 are at ALLIANCE level.

    I don't think you have.

    Edit: Been there, that is.

    Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

    RIP Vile Rat
    Nicolo da'Vicenza
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #91 - 2012-10-20 22:14:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
    Touval Lysander wrote:
    Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
    Karrl Tian wrote:
    Make it a completely separate shard that couldn't have ISK sent to characters there. No more pvp'ers cheating the system with highsec alts and highsec PvE, they would actually have live and PvE in all that wonderful empty space they own.

    just fix industry and I'm right there with you bud

    I'm still buzzed on this.

    So we need to divert CCP to improve indy because you're what..... too lazy?

    It's like, what, 10 seconds to log out and log back in on your highsec indy alt and build/research away in complete safety at a HS POS. Not like you have to actually TRAVEL....
    This post is a classic example of the sociopathic mentality common among 'carebears'; the telltale lack of empathic or emotional development to be able to consider the health of the game they play as a whole. All that matters to them is their immediate gratification, benefit to themselves. "Who cares if the majority of the game and EVE's new players (the future) are stuck ice mining trying to undercut bots and multiboxers, doesn't effect me!"

    Quote:
    1) Maybe you could try building MORE stations in your space.
    2) Do your production/research in POS's like a huge chunk of us "carebears" already do and have done for years.
    3) Get your alliances to stop charging so much fn refining tax so nullbears aren't forced to jump it out.
    4) Get your corps/alliances to actually DEFEND the miners so they can drag in low/mid and high minerals/ice.

    Any alliance that has followed any of the policies you laid out has died miserable deaths long, long ago at the hands of those who didn't. All of these suggestions have been proven to be bad. Alliances that have outsourced industry to highsec however rule with an iron fist. In a thread on "How to fix Nullsec", going on 'durrr why don't the alliances follow worst practices, that'll fix it!" isn't very constructive.

    hth
    Lord Zim
    Gallente Federation
    #92 - 2012-10-20 22:15:20 UTC
    Karl Hobb wrote:
    The rest involves nerfing high-sec into the ******* dirt (manufacturing, incursions, missions, etc...) and converting a large number of high-sec systems into low-sec so that holding sov null gives a competitive advantage on all fronts, and low-sec becomes pretty much what high-sec is now; a place for the small groups to play and make money.

    You can give sov null a competitive advantage without scaremongering about nerfing it into the ground, or making the various empires basically hisec islands. Small, careful nerfs to manufacturing install costs, refine rates and maybe even make manufacturing in hisec less efficient (i.e. use a bit more minerals) than low/null, and you could be well on your way if this was preceeded by a huge buff in nullsec industry and if this was implemented as a gradual change instead of the usual CCP way (i.e. drop an atom bomb on everything).

    Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

    RIP Vile Rat
    Nicolo da'Vicenza
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #93 - 2012-10-20 22:17:38 UTC
    Andski wrote:
    Touval Lysander wrote:
    Maybe you could try building MORE stations in your space.


    we could fill an entire region with upgraded outposts and we'd still have less slots than some hisec systems

    thank you for your valuable npc alt insights on 0.0 logistics

    lol
    Andski
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #94 - 2012-10-20 22:17:40 UTC
    Touval Lysander wrote:
    Been there, did it


    sorry 0.0 was too hard for you and you were forced to go back to the "everybody wins" welfare world that is hisec

    Twitter: @EVEAndski

    "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
    Karl Hobb
    Imperial Margarine
    #95 - 2012-10-20 22:20:28 UTC
    Lord Zim wrote:
    You can give sov null a competitive advantage without scaremongering about nerfing it into the ground, or making the various empires basically hisec islands. Small, careful nerfs to manufacturing install costs, refine rates and maybe even make manufacturing in hisec less efficient (i.e. use a bit more minerals) than low/null, and you could be well on your way if this was preceeded by a huge buff in nullsec industry and if this was implemented as a gradual change instead of the usual CCP way (i.e. drop an atom bomb on everything).

    I admit I was thinking more in a "if I had designed EVE" mode.

    A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
    Hans Zwaardhandler
    Habitual Euthanasia
    Pandemic Legion
    #96 - 2012-10-21 00:15:52 UTC
    If the primary reason people want to change null around is because of the rewards vs. the risk compared to highsec is too different and not in a good way, why not buff null rewards instead? Increase the rewards and payout of anoms and incursions that happen in null (while making lowsec incursions more profitable due to the fact they are in lowsec and not in a sea of blue).
    qDoctor Strangelove
    Doomheim
    #97 - 2012-10-21 00:35:08 UTC
    If they removed level 3 and 4 agents in empire, and fixed FW, I could live without Local in eve.

    But, I would rather have more station slots.
    And when it comes to pos manufacturing, that would require CCp to change mechanics. As it is today it is not possible for anyone beyond alt corps to do this.
    Nicolo da'Vicenza
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #98 - 2012-10-21 00:35:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
    Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
    If the primary reason people want to change null around is because of the rewards vs. the risk compared to highsec is too different and not in a good way, why not buff null rewards instead? Increase the rewards and payout of anoms and incursions that happen in null (while making lowsec incursions more profitable due to the fact they are in lowsec and not in a sea of blue).

    Well, in the case of manufacturing, the amount of buffs needed to make the highsec status quo of 'unlimited, concord-protected, free manufacturing slots capable of building all ships and modules in high, low and null with room to spare' would be so stupendously heavy that they would likely introduce their own problems. I feel the most feasible way of getting nullsec players to manufacture in nullsec would be to make changes that 1) make it possible so that all nullsec manufacturing can be done in 0.0 and 2) make it not possible so that all nullsec + highsec + low + wh manufacturing can be done in highsec. I don't feel that comes across some sort of evil plan crafted with the express intent to harm hisec players, but some people in this thread seem to act like it.
    Touval Lysander
    Zero Wine
    #99 - 2012-10-21 00:37:27 UTC
    Andski wrote:
    Touval Lysander wrote:
    Maybe you could try building MORE stations in your space.


    we could fill an entire region with upgraded outposts and we'd still have less slots than some hisec systems

    thank you for your valuable npc alt insights on 0.0 logistics

    You err.... overlooked the POS...

    The MORE stations was a poke in the chest.

    Using a POS - like most do - is a poke at your brain. But there was NO COMMENT....

    You make it far too easy. Roll

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
    Touval Lysander
    Zero Wine
    #100 - 2012-10-21 00:40:36 UTC
    Lord Zim wrote:

    Touval Lysander wrote:
    Been there, did it - the biggest setbacks to indy in 0.0 are at ALLIANCE level.

    I don't think you have.

    Edit: Been there, that is.

    I'm not the highsec char hiding behind a 0.0 alt. Coward.

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."