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[Winter] Attack Cruisers

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Lili Lu
#681 - 2012-10-19 16:55:32 UTC
FistyMcBumBasher wrote:
You and your team have been doing a great job so far, so I trust all of the ships will find a nice place.

Keep up the good work.

True enough. But don't get so wedded to the current stats in these threads. Fozzie has already said the combat cruisers are going to be getting another adjustment as well. So any comparisons between the two classes at this exact time are somewhat premature.
FistyMcBumBasher
State War Academy
Caldari State
#682 - 2012-10-19 18:10:31 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
FistyMcBumBasher wrote:
You and your team have been doing a great job so far, so I trust all of the ships will find a nice place.

Keep up the good work.

True enough. But don't get so wedded to the current stats in these threads. Fozzie has already said the combat cruisers are going to be getting another adjustment as well. So any comparisons between the two classes at this exact time are somewhat premature.



Which is exactly why I trust them to make sure that each ship has it's own unique feel. Have a 'like' for being a good contributor to this community.
Lili Lu
#683 - 2012-10-19 18:41:53 UTC
FistyMcBumBasher wrote:
Which is exactly why I trust them to make sure that each ship has it's own unique feel. Have a 'like' for being a good contributor to this community.

Thanks. And, have a like for a name that brings a grin. P
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#684 - 2012-10-19 19:25:43 UTC
Well, now that the Thorax is faster than a Rupture. I assume CCP will BOOST a Ruptures tank, because both a Rupture and Thorax have the same tank = /

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#685 - 2012-10-19 23:56:23 UTC
Really Major? Add the total raw hitpoints of both ships, compare them, realize the Rupture has more natural tank and better fitting. Is it really that hard to check before you post something completely inaccurate to ensure your precious Rupture remains overpowered?
Seleucus Ontuas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#686 - 2012-10-20 10:14:54 UTC
I would like to point out that the current iteration of Attack, Support, and EW Cruisers are currently out on Duality.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#687 - 2012-10-20 10:51:59 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Eterne
Same, similar, whatever relative term I don't care. Rupture = Thorax and Thorax = Rupture, weapon systems being the main difference. I don't need to convince or have interest in proving that I'm correct to *******. All that matters is that CCP has the ability to test these ships and they will KNOW that I'm correct.

It's like caring what a ant thinks about a statement after you state it. I say what I mean and mean what I say and I don't do it to win some fictitious argument others may THINK they're having with me. You know! Unless I ask or open up a dialog about whatever subject I'm confused or not sure of or have no knowledge of and have in the past.

Those I do listen to and have discourse do not frequent the forums and are SILLY good. You could call them my peers; Since they have much of the depth of knowledge/EXPERIENCE I do with regard to combat dynamics/meta of Eve.


Anyway.

The propose Caracal and Omen changes seem interesting; Stabber lost one drone and no there was compensation for loss of damage? = ) By the way, the propose Stabber has similar damage projection and application to the Vagabond? Thorax is more HAC like too and so is the Caracal, with regard to the Cerberus. Oh deer!

Removed censor evasion - CCP Eterne

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#688 - 2012-10-20 11:56:52 UTC
After testing a bit, I think the capacitor on the Thorax is too weak.
Old Thorax, running only mwd with my skills: 6min 50 sec. Cap: 1821 / 368s
New Thorax, running only mwd with my skills: 3min 10 sec. Cap: 1468 / 387s

The new Thorax does however have a lot more speed, so I don't have to keep it active for the same time as before, but cutting my flight time in half is a bit harsh I think.

The stabber should also get a sliiiightly stronger cap too. 2:40 running only mwd is a bit weak. I'd say bump it up to 3 min running meta 4 mwd, but reduce it's overall speed by 15 or 20 m/s.

I have not tested Omen or Caracal, so can't comment on them

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#689 - 2012-10-20 12:06:50 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
After testing a bit, I think the capacitor on the Thorax is too weak.
Old Thorax, running only mwd with my skills: 6min 50 sec. Cap: 1821 / 368s
New Thorax, running only mwd with my skills: 3min 10 sec. Cap: 1468 / 387s

The new Thorax does however have a lot more speed, so I don't have to keep it active for the same time as before, but cutting my flight time in half is a bit harsh I think.

You also have a new mid slot for the cap booster is you really need that much capacitor time.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#690 - 2012-10-20 13:31:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
Hannott Thanos wrote:
After testing a bit, I think the capacitor on the Thorax is too weak.
Old Thorax, running only mwd with my skills: 6min 50 sec. Cap: 1821 / 368s
New Thorax, running only mwd with my skills: 3min 10 sec. Cap: 1468 / 387s

The new Thorax does however have a lot more speed, so I don't have to keep it active for the same time as before, but cutting my flight time in half is a bit harsh I think.

The stabber should also get a sliiiightly stronger cap too. 2:40 running only mwd is a bit weak. I'd say bump it up to 3 min running meta 4 mwd, but reduce it's overall speed by 15 or 20 m/s.

I have not tested Omen or Caracal, so can't comment on them



Would you like CCP to give you training wheels too?

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Kai'rae Saarkus
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#691 - 2012-10-20 18:03:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kai'rae Saarkus
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
After testing a bit, I think the capacitor on the Thorax is too weak.
Old Thorax, running only mwd with my skills: 6min 50 sec. Cap: 1821 / 368s
New Thorax, running only mwd with my skills: 3min 10 sec. Cap: 1468 / 387s

The new Thorax does however have a lot more speed, so I don't have to keep it active for the same time as before, but cutting my flight time in half is a bit harsh I think.

You also have a new mid slot for the cap booster is you really need that much capacitor time.


Ssshhh.... You're giving away the secrets. Everybody thinks the 4th mid is so you can Shield tank it... ignoring the effect of a Med Neut, Scram, Web combo on a Thorax (hello MAJ Killz... yes, this is why the Rupture will still compete with Thoraxes).
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#692 - 2012-10-21 00:22:22 UTC
Yes Roll because a Rupture will Cap a Thorax before one of them esplodes = / Great secret!

I would agree if dual rep with 1 cap booster instead of 2, but good luck with that What?

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Meldorn Vaash
State War Academy
Caldari State
#693 - 2012-10-21 04:26:31 UTC
Stabber still feels a little too light in the damage department.

If adding a turret isn't an option, what about adjusting the bonuses a little.

5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed
to
7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed


7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff
to
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff


Gives a little bit more DPS to keep up with the other ships and a little more range for wiggle room.
"Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes."
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#694 - 2012-10-21 11:41:18 UTC
Meldorn Vaash wrote:
Stabber still feels a little too light in the damage department.

If adding a turret isn't an option, what about adjusting the bonuses a little.

5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed
to
7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed


7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff
to
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff


Gives a little bit more DPS to keep up with the other ships and a little more range for wiggle room.

Remember stabber is a destroyer, err, in fact, it is faster than some destroyers.
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#695 - 2012-10-22 08:44:40 UTC
Something that bothers me all the time.

Caldari and Low slots... How are we supposed to use low slots that are left over after 2-3 BCU???

Nano the hell out of a Raven? Or Hull tank a Caracal?

I know that extra mids lead to overly tough tanking, but what is the point of numerous lows?

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#696 - 2012-10-22 08:57:08 UTC
Yeah it bothers me that Caldari has no 6/3 cruisers or 7/4 battleships (this is probably due the Raven not being the highest tier like the Baddon and might be fixed) and instead get very similar mid/low slot combinations despite lending themselves completely to shield tanking. Even the resist bonused ships like the Rokh/Moa are severely lacking in the midslots to take advantage of it unlike Amarr resist bonused ships that lean heavily to more lowslots.
Kaz Mafaele
D-sync
D-sync.
#697 - 2012-10-22 15:04:28 UTC
The stabber really could use some kind of damage bonus i love going fast and have been trying to find a successful way to use the current stabber since i trained into it without much luck and i do not think these changes solve the problem. This seems to be the only cruiser in this line up that suffers from a split weapon system and its fairly unlikely that anyone with enough skill points to effectively use missiles and projectiles is going to ever be using a t1 cruiser for anything. Also the speed is great but even with the fall off you will still be sitting inside the damage projection of most lasers and pretty much all missiles and quite a few projectiles so now your reduced to picking on destroyers and any blaster boats you might find and possibly frigates if you use smaller guns which nerfs your damage again. Could we not trade one of our missile launcher slots for another turret or lose a slot entirely and boost the hull bonuses. I am almost afraid to ask because the response too cant we do some thing with one useless drone was you just taking the drone away entirely.

Right now it just feels like all your doing is giving us the fastest ship to get too our death.

on the upside the new art for it looks great thank you so much for getting rid of the stabber hulls ugly rear end
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#698 - 2012-10-22 15:29:06 UTC
Kaz Mafaele wrote:
The stabber really could use some kind of damage bonus i love going fast and have been trying to find a successful way to use the current stabber since i trained into it without much luck and i do not think these changes solve the problem. This seems to be the only cruiser in this line up that suffers from a split weapon system and its fairly unlikely that anyone with enough skill points to effectively use missiles and projectiles is going to ever be using a t1 cruiser for anything. Also the speed is great but even with the fall off you will still be sitting inside the damage projection of most lasers and pretty much all missiles and quite a few projectiles so now your reduced to picking on destroyers and any blaster boats you might find and possibly frigates if you use smaller guns which nerfs your damage again. Could we not trade one of our missile launcher slots for another turret or lose a slot entirely and boost the hull bonuses. I am almost afraid to ask because the response too cant we do some thing with one useless drone was you just taking the drone away entirely.

Right now it just feels like all your doing is giving us the fastest ship to get too our death.

on the upside the new art for it looks great thank you so much for getting rid of the stabber hulls ugly rear end

Think about it like a destroyer with cruiser tank and damage. It could be worse I think. With a fifth turret, you would have to lose this firing speed bonus.

And HAM are not that long to train, beside the fact that minmatar are becoming projectile/missile race. It will be like a gallente who don't want to train drones.
Kaz Mafaele
D-sync
D-sync.
#699 - 2012-10-22 15:33:54 UTC
It certainly could be worse i just feel that if they were trying to make "attack cruisers" viable they have not quite made it good point though on the view as a up jumped dessy
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#700 - 2012-10-22 15:44:41 UTC
"could be worse" was a way of talking : it will be amazing in fact for a T1 cruiser. It's almost a vagabond.