Ships & Modules

Considering the NH has been considered a bad ship for some time that is out classed by the Tengu in every way anyway, I don't really see how this change is going to change the fact that everyone flies tengus and no one flies nighthawks.

people fly nighthawks?

So what do you need all the isk for? Do you need to plex to maintain your accounts? Is it to fund pvp losses? Or do you just crave isk? From the sounds of it, you may find missions take 10% longer. Would a 10% loss in overall isk income truly hurt you?

If yes, then this nerf will hurt you. If it means you make 90 mil an hour instead of 100 and oh no your wallet won't grow as fast, but that wallet is never user, who cares? I guess to me it matters more why you need the isk. To fund pvp, yeah the nerf sucks I jope you can find ways to compensate. If you are just on a quest to fatten your wallet, tough luck.

But what do you need that tank for? About the only place I've wanted a massive kin/therm passive tank was in some of the heavy neuting Serpentis plexes. For the purpose of L4s there's absolutely no reason to passive tank a Nighthawk and there's little reason to choose one over a Tengu -- and none of those reasons involve increased tanking ability.



This is absurd. I've had CS 5 since before T3s were released and I still find precious little use for the Nighthawk despite loving the hull. Training time has nothing to do with it. The fact of the matter is that the Tengu is hands down better in almost all circumstances.

Well, luckily CCP has decided to address these issues, and have only postponed the TE/TD changes for missiles. Which means that the current 30km range on HAM's (and almost double killspeed compared to HM's), will stretch out, probably exceeding 40-50km without needing to switch to javelins. I don't know about you, but I can't think that you'll have to worry much about travel time with a 40km range and 1km/s speed w/ AB on. Of course... it may just be that I'm competent enough to point my ship at a target and move in its direction, and turn on the (permarunning) AB. I understand if you find this difficult though...




As for this, you obviously haven't played eve for very long. The nerf to the machariel is coming - eventually. And you have had a good 4 years with heavy missiles sitting in their nice OP position, which is far longer than lasers got, or nano, or really anything else. Remember, - nerfs and buffs in eve go around and come around, and everything will have its time eventually.

And yes, it was heavy missiles that were the problem, not the ships. Ships that use heavy missiles are the drake, the tengu, the nighthawk, the cerberus, and the caracel. Of those ships, the drake and tengu were so good with HM's that HAM's were useless, and they outclassed all other longrange cruiser/BC sized vessels by a long shot - competing with the shortrange variants. As for the other three ships... the nighthawk has been pathetic for years due to fitting issues, the cerb lacks the necessary speed to actually be viable, and the caracel suffers from cruiser syndrome. So you have 3 crap platforms, and 2 decent platforms, but the decent platforms were made OP by the fact that that particular weapon system was OP. So the weapons are being nerfed to where they belong, (they really should have stuck with the 20% damage nerf though) and now they can actually properly balance these ships. Amazing...

-Arazel

I understand full well that T3s are good for newer players and that training time is a consideration on that side of things. My point was that T3s -- and the Tengu in particular -- are so good that even older players who have full access to ships that require extensive training time -- like the Nighthawk -- still choose to fly T3s on a regular basis.

This is more obvious in some cases than others. T3 OGBs are definitely broken. The Tengu roflstomps the Nighthawk/Cerberus more than the Proteus vis-a-vis the Astarte and Lachesis, which is more pronounced than the Legion versus the Absolution/Sacrilege/Zealot/Pilgrim. The Sleipnir remains competitive in some areas with the Loki.

The Nighthawk case is pretty clear cut though. Unless you absolutely have to have a therm/kin passive tank or you absolutely have to have that tiny drone bay, the Tengu is better suited -- training time be damned since it isn't even a relevant consideration to the choice in the first place.

Basically this. Nighthawk has been in the toilet for years, the number of people this will actually affect is probably in the double-digits. Even if the NH was given more PG than a low-tier cruiser, it would still lack a role.

Also, what's so special about the NH's tank? For a typical brick NH, I'm showing 1054 DPS omnitank - but a comparably fit Tengu is around 1300 DPS omnitank, with more missile DPS, more speed, more EHP and a smaller sig to boot.

Nighthawk is well known by dev's for being terrible but it's always a big mistake to compare it with Tengu.

Would we even have this discussion if nighthawk was at least that good than Sleipnir? -we wouldn't, and the problem here once again, it's not Tengu.

Take away:
-the silliness of heavy missiles flight time on top of Tengu flight time bonus (that is a good one once missiles are balanced)
-the silliness of dmg application for heavy missiles on top of +5kin dmg p/lvl
-natural and due speed tanking/sign radius vs brick fat : this point is not even something to discuss about, we're talking about a cruiser vs a battlecruiser.

And you get a very well balanced Tengu, only thing changed is missiles statistics.
This heavy missile volley/base dmg nerf is good because brings Tengu and Drake more in the line with other ships of same class/role. However ships like Nighthawk are even worst if players assume this ship will not get rebalanced fittings and bonus wise, witch is wrong and bad assumption.
Once people understand this Heavy missile nerf is something required they should be able to adapt fittings and ship choice for "x" task.
Tengu will still be an awesome ship, hell with HAM's this thing is really going to be crazy with a decent tank/mobility, but will not be any more the ship who does it all just like Drake, and this is a fantastic choice of balance to make it so more hulls after rebalance of course, are used and can fit different roles, something you want to fly with.

Some of you know how much I love this ship and defend against "olol tengu is op" brainless comments because the ship it self is clearly not OP, but the addiction of several bad direct/indirect ships/mods balance make it too good for everything.

I'm even more happy Nighthawk is getting a good pair of balance slaps because they will each one fill a purpose, I'm not ready to get rid of my Tengus for sure, but I'm so happy I'll be able to actually choose nighthawk as a viable choice for specific tasks.

Not many people feel the nighthawk needs to be nerfed.....The fact that you're comparing a t3 cruiser to a t2 battlecruiser should tell you that something's wrong.

You missed the context and the whole post but let me copy/pasta for you something in the same post:





And finally:



Next time read the entire post instead of a few lines, if you have trouble reading it please send me an e mail I'll put it in French with a google translator link just for you.